hCaptcha now runs on fifteen percent of the internet • Hacker News Board

Re: hCaptcha now runs on fifteen percent of the internet

#11

Post by blindm » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 7:30 PM UTC

I think it's great. So many sites sit behind Cloudflare now and Cloudflare now uses hCaptcha, which is a big win. And the hCaptchas themselves are easy to complete. No more wondering if you actually clicked on 'all' the traffic lights anymore, yay!

I inspected the source code of Google's reCaptcha offering and was disgusted at how many bits of information they were collecting. They also seem to be fingerprinting users so they can't keep registering new accounts on a platform, locking out anonymous users who are usually the best types of users on the platform, as IMHO anonymous voices are (usually) the best voices, or at least the more interesting of voices.

Google's reCaptcha code seemed to be very keen on knowing my 'cadence' or the way I used my mouse and how quickly (or how slow) I completed the captcha. It also looked at things like timezone, screen resolution, battery charge level etc So they could determine if it was 'you' who was using the captcha, soon after, in a separate session (even on a different device!)

Re: hCaptcha now runs on fifteen percent of the internet

#12

Post by CodesInChaos » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 7:30 PM UTC

jtbayly wrote: post #6

alexnewman wrote: post #2

Curious what people think about hCaptcha?

Far, far superior to reCaptcha from a user's perspective using Tor. I can solve a few puzzles with hCaptcha and I know I'll get through and see the content. With reCaptcha I might solve 3 puzzles and then get denied anyway, or I might solve 10 puzzles with no end in sight and give up.

Not sure if I'm seeing patterns in noise, but with recaptcha I felt that timing and mouse movements are just as important as clicking the right images. It feels like solving the puzzle quickly and using minimal mouse movements has a higher chance of being denied compared to waiting some time between clicks and adding some superfluous mouse movements.

Re: hCaptcha now runs on fifteen percent of the internet

#13

Post by QUFB » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 7:31 PM UTC

fab1an wrote: post #8

QUFB wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: How do you view it as an improvement? The same data is being shared, and the only difference is that Cloudflare isn't immediately behaving in the same evil ways as Google. But once you concentrate power in an entity, perhaps bad things might happen? ... If there was an on-premise captcha implementation that actually worked, that would be great.

Unlike Google, hCaptcha isn't running an ad network "on the side" of their bot management business :) joking aside, hCaptcha is an extremely privacy-conscious operation, Google is not.

I'm not a lawyer, but can you explain how their privacy policy is privacy-conscious now and going forward, and how centralization of network transit with Cloudflare isn't a bad thing?

https://www.hcaptcha.com/privacy

Re: hCaptcha now runs on fifteen percent of the internet

#14

Post by innocenat » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 7:31 PM UTC

alexnewman wrote: post #2

Curious what people think about hCaptcha?

For me I find hCaptcha harder and more ambiguous than what I have experienced with reCaptcha.

The ambiguity might be because my phone is set to Japanese. I got asked to identify 電車 (Densha, electric train), but there were also images of diesel train. Is it translation error, or is it really asking me to identify electric train? (The correct term for train in general in Japanese is 列車 ressha)

Re: hCaptcha now runs on fifteen percent of the internet

#15

Post by judge2020 » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 7:32 PM UTC

ve55 wrote: post #4

Worth noting that this title is primarily due to Cloudflare having switched to them from ReCAPTCHA, and Cloudflare is... well, relatively popular, to say the least. I'm curious what kind of data may exist on the experience of switching for larger providers; do the users like it? how much more/less time do they spend solving? do they care, let alone even notice that it's not Google's ReCAPTCHA? Regardless, as ReCAPTCH…

For site operators, they don’t like the change since users are more likely to complain to the website than directly to CF. The following community post has 20k views and >100 replies asking Cloudflare to move back to recaptcha in some form.

https://community.cloudflare.com/t/stop-using-hcaptcha/15896...

Re: hCaptcha now runs on fifteen percent of the internet

#16

Post by californical » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 7:32 PM UTC

DoctorOW wrote: post #5

alexnewman wrote: post #2

Curious what people think about hCaptcha?

Personally I find it much more difficult than recaptcha. The tests themselves aren't much worse but since I have a Google account HCaptcha shows up more frequently.

Small price to pay to prevent Google from having tracking scripts and metrics on users of every major website. hCaptcha at least somewhat values user privacy.

Re: hCaptcha now runs on fifteen percent of the internet

#17

Post by abhinav22 » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 7:33 PM UTC

I really hate all these captcha codes

Why can’t they do something like a reverse SSL where we have to authenticate ourselves as humans?

For example if I have an Apple account on my Apple devices, why can’t they figure out a way to authenticate me as a human from that information?

This doesn’t work for all scenarios (eg throwaway accounts), but it could work for the majority?

Re: hCaptcha now runs on fifteen percent of the internet

#18

Post by MattGaiser » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 7:34 PM UTC

CodesInChaos wrote: post #12

jtbayly wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far, far superior to reCaptcha from a user's perspective using Tor. I can solve a few puzzles with hCaptcha and I know I'll get through and see the content. With reCaptcha I might solve 3 puzzles and then get denied anyway, or I might solve 10 puzzles with no end in sight and give up.

Not sure if I'm seeing patterns in noise, but with recaptcha I felt that timing and mouse movements are just as important as clicking the right images. It feels like solving the puzzle quickly and using minimal mouse movements has a higher chance of being denied compared to waiting some time between clicks and adding some superfluous mouse movements.

It also seems to be this way too. If I am using Tor, it seems like I need to swirl my mouse around a few times to pass a recaptcha.

Re: hCaptcha now runs on fifteen percent of the internet

#19

Post by OJFord » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 7:34 PM UTC

ve55 wrote: post #4

Worth noting that this title is primarily due to Cloudflare having switched to them from ReCAPTCHA, and Cloudflare is... well, relatively popular, to say the least. I'm curious what kind of data may exist on the experience of switching for larger providers; do the users like it? how much more/less time do they spend solving? do they care, let alone even notice that it's not Google's ReCAPTCHA? Regardless, as ReCAPTCH…

Worldwide? And since when? I've never hit one of these, I get reCaptcha'd to ~death~ anger all the time.

Although having said that, maybe I am hitting it and that I've been unaware and uninterrogated is high praise! Hm.

Re: hCaptcha now runs on fifteen percent of the internet

#20

Post by kaycebasques » Wed, Nov 25, 2020, 7:35 PM UTC

This sounds kinda nitpicky but I think it's an important distinction. We're talking about the web, not the internet, right? Or is hcaptcha also used for iOS apps, Android apps, etc.?