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Diego Maradona has died

theguardian.com

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Re: Diego Maradona has died

#101

Post by kshmir »

cambalache wrote: post #96
mongol wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazingly similar. I think it is better. Notice how the player that chases him does not slow the pace, but pushes on until he makes a failed attempt to break the play. Speed seems faster too. A good illustration of evolution of the game. Of course, we don't know if Maradona would still have scored with more effort from the English defense, maybe he would. In any case, two great goals.

One was against Getafe in almost-meaningless copa del rey game, the other was against England in a Quarter final game in the WC. Night and day.

And 4 years after a war were we lost a bunch of kids lives. That day he became a legend to Argentina.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#102

Post by usrusr »

chrisseaton wrote: post #61
aloukissas wrote: post #12

Imagine if we had this silly VAR technology in the 80s. Then one of the most iconic moments in football history (hand of god) would have been reviewed and dismissed. RIP Diegito

I don’t understand why would you want an illegal handball to not be provable?

It's the flawed moments that separate this sport from those that are basically boring scientific experiments for identifying the fastest, strongest or the most accurate.

You surely wouldn't design it deliberately with those flaws and if the flaws were designed on purpose they'd fail at contributing to entertainment, but ripping them out doesn't necessarily make it better.

Just like you wouldn't want to fix US elections in any way at all if their purpose was entertainment. Football's purpose is.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#103

Post by bulutsuzku »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #39
bzb6 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maradona was an excellent football player without a doubt but all he’s done for decades now is getting a renown for being a cocaine addict, a communist, and a pederast. As per the rest of your comment I love your country but you have some very deep seated problems and having a three day duel for this piece of shit shows them very well.

> I love your country but you have some very deep seated problems and having a three day duel for this piece of shit shows them very well. Couldn't agree more.

It happens everywhere. It doesn't mean 50% of the country agrees with their decision. Populists politics use anything in hand to survive, any escape might help to smooth the unattractive truth but the suburbs have no charms to soothe the restless dreams of youth.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#104

Post by [deleted] »

eatplayrove wrote: post #68
aazaa wrote: post #42

Not sure why this is here (don't follow soccer and never heard of Maradona), but the "Hand of God" incident is an entertaining read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_hand_of_God and watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ccNkksrfls On second thought, this was probably a hack of sorts.

I am not criticizing or sneering, but I am astonished that there are people that have never heard of Maradona.

[deleted]

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#106

Post by mrisoli »

bobochan wrote: post #22
s_dev wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Pelé?

Pelé is definitely the choice of many pundits, but he played most of his club soccer in the Brazilian leagues. In Brazil's World Cup efforts he had a superb team around him. Maradona is given the nod because he played in Spain and Italy, in addition to Argentina, and dominated a World Cup with a much weaker team.

I am Brazilian(and a major football/Pelé fan), so heavily biased here.

And I don't see the competitiveness of leagues/or time holding up as an argument.

Pelé dominated his competition for a long time, he won national and continental championships multiple times as well as being the star in two world cups, one of them at the age of 17, his numbers are better as well.

Maradona in the meantime spent a solid amount of time in both Europe and South America and wasn't continental champion, so relatively speaking, he wasn't as dominant in his time as Pelé was during his own.

And if you argue that competitiveness is ever increasing, you have Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo with much better numbers and a decade-long dominance, I would argue even Zidane, Romario and Ronaldo above him in terms of results.

Maradona comes from a time when governments were highlighting football for need of national unity. Pelé was used for media in the same way.

He's definitely one of the greatest when it comes to how symbolic he is to the game, he represents Argentina's rise to the top of the football world, which has followed as Argentina has consistently put great players since, but I have high reservations as to calling him the best of all time.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#107

Post by mongol »

soneca wrote: post #97
mongol wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This goal was incredible, but with many years passed, it has faded in significance for me. Not sure why, if it is because the game has evolved, or I have seen many other great goals, or something else. But probably because I think the defense was too passive. This goal would not be done today, most probably.

The fact it was during an eliminatory game of World Cup (that Argentina ended up winning) matters a lot to the importance and beauty of this goal. There are not many opportunities in a player life to do such a thing (unlike national league or even continental league matches)

That is certainly true. But there is a World cup every four years and in most cups in the past, let's say, 20 years, there is an eliminatory game with an equally great or greater goal. I think this goal has become legendary because of:

- Maradona's dominance as a player throughout the -86 cup - The Falkland Islands war just a few years prior giving this game a special tension and attention - It's beauty relative other goals at the time

My comment is just a reflection to often heard comments about it being the greatest goal ever. Judging it just by what the clip shows, it has faded for me. But the historical context is important.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#108

Post by bmsleight_ »

gus_massa wrote: post #48

In case someone has not seen the second goal against England in 1986 Original footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wVho3I0NtU An interview many years later: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOz2uGMTA2w

But the first goal, broke my young heart. Can never forgive.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#109

Post by soneca »

mongol wrote: post #107
soneca wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact it was during an eliminatory game of World Cup (that Argentina ended up winning) matters a lot to the importance and beauty of this goal. There are not many opportunities in a player life to do such a thing (unlike national league or even continental league matches)

That is certainly true. But there is a World cup every four years and in most cups in the past, let's say, 20 years, there is an eliminatory game with an equally great or greater goal. I think this goal has become legendary because of: - Maradona's dominance as a player throughout the -86 cup - The Falkland Islands war just a few years prior giving this game a special tension and attention - It's beauty relative othe…

> ” in most cups in the past, let's say, 20 years, there is an eliminatory game with an equally great or greater goal”

What? I honestly can’t remember of a single one. Which goals are you thinking of?

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#110

Post by antaviana »

arrosenberg wrote: post #83
mongol wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This goal was incredible, but with many years passed, it has faded in significance for me. Not sure why, if it is because the game has evolved, or I have seen many other great goals, or something else. But probably because I think the defense was too passive. This goal would not be done today, most probably.

Lionel Messi, same goal, 2004 (or thereabouts) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAehMNYw0ig

And Messi also did the replica of the other goal (hand of God) against Espanyol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i37HfAE1X8Y
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