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Doctors and Nurses Are Running on Empty

nytimes.com

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Re: Doctors and Nurses Are Running on Empty

#41

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #35
AlexandrB wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a symptom of our time that everything gets reduced to an economic calculus. The concepts of sacrifice, passion, or duty seem like a distant memory. Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying it's doctors and nurses thinking this way. But a lot of posters on HN certainly are.

It’s just reality. If you want more people to sign up to change bedpans during a pandemic, then pay up. The cause of stress among healthcare providers is economic, and so is the solution. I would never advise my kids to go into a job where a part of your pay is being called a hero. That’s how you get taken advantage of. This is not wartime. This is a result of MBAs in management running the organization so lean that…

The labor force isn't a frictionless system. If we decided to double nurse's pay worldwide right now, how long do you think it would take until we have more nurses?

Re: Doctors and Nurses Are Running on Empty

#42

Post by n0us »

Man, this thread really bringing out the worst of Hackernews and its so disappointing but unfortunately not surprising to see the complete lack of capacity for empathy from some of the other heavily downvoted commenters. Almost everyone who participates on this site is well educated and fortunate enough to understand that people have been putting their lives on the line for months on end to help people through this crisis.

They did not sign up for this an in most cases probably don't really have a choice but to keep working. Health care has always been known as a high stress field, but the last year has completely changed everything even for the people not directly working with Covid patients. Hospitals in America continue to treat employees horrendously while the executives hide out and rake in the big bucks. Maybe a small minority of nurses are earning this "5-10k" but there are probably not as many as you would think. Not everyone can just leave home and everything else behind and work 5-12s in a week.

Re: Doctors and Nurses Are Running on Empty

#43

Post by dragontamer »

Tomorrow is Thanksgiving. And with 2020 shaking up to be one of the "worst years" in history, it is important to remember what we can truly be thankful for.

Tomorrow, give a moment to thank the hard working nurses and doctors who have done what they can to save as many lives as possible in this year. That's what Thanksgiving is all about: even in the worst of times, we need to give thanks to the people who made this year just a little bit less shitty than it could have been.

That's absolutely something to be thankful for. For the 80-hour weeks, for the endless stress, for the worry of contracting COVID19 and spreading it to the ones they love. The frontline workers: be they paramedics, doctors, or nurses, have put in extra effort this year. Their work is usually seen in a negative light (# of deaths), because its impossible to see the converse (# of lives saved).

Re: Doctors and Nurses Are Running on Empty

#44

Post by zaroth »

chowells wrote: post #5
Der_Einzige wrote: post #2

On the upside, traveling nurses are now routinely making 5-10K a week (and they usually get real PPE rather than be told to reuse stuff) That's far better money than most soldiers (or even FAANG engineers) make, and the risk of being shot or having to write crappy unit tests is far smaller. Source if you don't believe me: https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/24/health/covid-nurses-big-money... Lmao what's wrong downvoters? Do…

I don't care how much someone other than me makes. I care that you're so insensitive that when you're told that medical professionals are burning out en mass you think money makes up for it. That's so incredibly lacking in both empathy (they're human beings) and utility (they're medical care providers) that I can't reconcile it with any good-faith viewpoint on the world. So I have to assume it's trolling and should n…

Some jobs are hard and extremely strenuous. The least we can do is pay very well for them and make sure that anyone doing the job is well informed of the risks, is a consenting adult, is making the choice freely and not under coercion like threat of being fired.

Very good pay is absolutely an “upside”.

The personal and emotional attacks against OP are totally unwarranted.

Re: Doctors and Nurses Are Running on Empty

#45

Post by lotsofpulp »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #23
tootahe45 wrote: post #6

Nobody is forcing them to work. My guess is that being massively overpaid for what they do makes it worth it for them, otherwise we would've seen mass walkouts.

Could you imagine seeing headlines about people dying because of people like you walking out during a crisis? And knowing you contributed to those deaths? And where are you going to go? Switch industries in the middle of this? Because if you stay in healthcare, walking out of your single facility doesn't even get you away from the pandemic. I have friends burning out in healthcare, being paid terribly, but sticking i…

I wholeheartedly support nurses and nursing assistances walking away. Because society has shown that we don’t value their work enough to pay them enough to attract people to the job. Nursing homes are run on shoe string budgets, those people changing bed pans are well in their moral rights to strike and demand better pay. I don’t see anyone lining up to do their job.

It’s also a bit rich for people who don’t work these important, getting your hands dirty jobs to judge people walking out on them. It’s society’s moral failing to not properly allocate resources to them.

Re: Doctors and Nurses Are Running on Empty

#46

Post by AlexandrB »

woahAcademia wrote: post #33
AlexandrB wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthcare is already under-regulated. That's how shit like homeopathy keeps showing up on pharmacy shelves. I'd prefer to be treated by an actual doctor, not an alternative health practitioner posing as one thanks to deregulation.

Alternative healthcare? Let me remind you of the opioid epidemic entirely caused by physicians. To buy dandruff medicine you need to get approval from a Physician, a pharmacist, and pharmacy. Not to mention the actual product regulations. We've had 140 years of regulation. It was to protect healthcare workers at our expense.

The opioid epidemic was caused the the corrupting influence of money in the medical profession. And your solution is to remove the only countervailing force - regulation - and turn the whole thing over to money-driven incentives?

I'm sure you're right, and without regulation doctors would be paid less. They'd make it up in direct sponsorships from pharmaceutical companies though.

Re: Doctors and Nurses Are Running on Empty

#47

Post by u801e »

bluedino wrote: post #8
Der_Einzige wrote: post #2

On the upside, traveling nurses are now routinely making 5-10K a week (and they usually get real PPE rather than be told to reuse stuff) That's far better money than most soldiers (or even FAANG engineers) make, and the risk of being shot or having to write crappy unit tests is far smaller. Source if you don't believe me: https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/24/health/covid-nurses-big-money... Lmao what's wrong downvoters? Do…

The hospital I work for will pay me time and a half to come in after hours and do anything that needs done (moving patients, feeding patients, cleaning rooms), and I'm in IT. They are desperate.

> The hospital I work for will pay me time and a half to come in after hours and do anything that needs done (moving patients, feeding patients, cleaning rooms), and I'm in IT.

I think it's more along the lines that it's probably cheaper to pay you time and a half given hospital IT pay compared to paying qualified nursing staff to do the same.

Re: Doctors and Nurses Are Running on Empty

#49

Post by LeifCarrotson »

I've got a friend who's a nurse in a local hospital. She's in the OB ward but has a half dozen patients on her floor with Covid. She says at least half is on antianxiety meds (xanax); she just got a talking-to from her doc who refused to refill her prescription. Apparently, the first bottle is available for anyone with the connections, but after that they start talking about addiction and asking questions.

They are offering extra pay; they are understaffed with positions open for RNs at $50/hr plus a 30% bonus (not sure why that's not just $65).

About 40% of the staff has or has had COVID.

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