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A Worsening Culture War

taibbi.substack.com

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Re: A Worsening Culture War

#131

Post by awakeasleep »

rmrk wrote: post #101

was making sense until the bs "both sides" conclusion: "We have two donor-fattened parties that across decades of incompetence have each run out of convincing pitches for how to improve the lives of ordinary people." I find the ideas of fixing healthcare, reinvesting in our economy and infrastructure, and shoring up our social programs highly convincing. And I'm pretty sure the polls show those ideas resonate across…

Both parties campaign on fixing healthcare.

After the latest fixes, insurance for a self employed family of four is about $25k a year after insurance and deductibles.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#132

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

javert wrote: post #85
zo1 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how you can say there isn't any evidence? The wealthy most certainly donate to political causes, campaigns and opinionated non-profits. It wouldn't be a stretch to argue that such money amplifies those entities' power, thus causing societal level problems with the amplified power of their wealth. It's not 100% valid or exhaustive proof, but at the very least shows that it's a reasonable avenue of exploring r…

The rich don't control the two political parties. Showing that they do would be the beginning of evidence. In fact, the Dems' agenda is anti-rich (raise taxes enormously, etc.) and the Republicans are currently controlled by non-college-educated blue-collar people. This is obvious. If Taibbi has a counter-narrative to the obvious, that's fine, but he needs to present evidence.

I think this is just background knowledge he assumed the reader would have. Basically every national politician whose name you recognize is wealthy.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#133

Post by chrisjarvis »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #58
geerlingguy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This viewpoint (where the unstated understanding is 'the group that is good is Democrats, and the group that is evil is Republicans') is part of the problem. The world is more complicated than that.

The viewpoint that both groups are just as bad or just as good for wage earners is a problem. It’s easily verifiable that Democratic states have better laws for wage earners, and have pushed for policies that benefit wage earners. They’re nowhere near perfect, but there’s no reason to pretend Dems and Repubs are the same.

both sides push for higher immigration and a globalized market, which have more effect on wage-earners in the US than any policy in "Democratic states". Imo you are missing the forest thru the trees, at scale they really are the same.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#134

Post by Pfhreak »

I agree with the central thesis -- we should be shaking hands with our neighbors and looking to take back power and wealth from the rich.

But how do you get neighbors to shake hands when one believes that gay marriage is truly evil and another is gay?

Both sides in America constantly fight bitterly over identity politics and it seems like many of those identities are irreconcilable with one another.

I'm non binary and use singular they, and I've had some absolutely incredible vitriol directed at me for nothing beyond, "hi, I'm name. I use they/them pronouns. Nice to meet you!" How do we get past the part where people decide it's ok to tell me I should be sterilized or committed, and get to the point where we start turning towards the capital class together?

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#135

Post by [deleted] »

jl6 wrote: post #112
lotsofpulp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand “red/blue” shit. For me, it’s “improving quality of life for wage earners and affirming civil liberties / vs not doing the aforementioned” shit. A cousin in my family has a very valid grievance against business owner uncles that support politicians who don’t want to provide meal breaks or bathroom breaks. This cousin has to work 12 to 14 hour shifts, and eat standing up while working and sneak in b…

Consider that your political opponents may also want to achieve the same goals but may have a radically different and less direct method of doing it. Then you might understand that you have something in common with them, and find a way to have civil disagreement instead of othering them.

[deleted]

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#136

Post by casion »

the_duke wrote: post #66
eznzt wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The craziest part of this american culture war, to me, is that it seems to spill over to the rest of the world. It does not seem so crazy to me, after decades of cultural imperialism from America, that we are mirroring the same patterns of behaviour and fighting the same battles. (Just to be clear, I'm not against imperialism) If American politics are straining your relationship with your sister and you are not even…

> but only you two have yourselves to blame This is a very dismissive argument to make. It's just like saying Americans have just themselves to blame for this culture ware and should just stop arguing and move on. Everyone watches US TV shows and movies. Many media outlets all over the world give way too much attention to US news topics, for reasons that are not really clear to me. This kind of cultural affiliation i…

And consuming those things, then accepting their premise and message wholesale, is a personal choice.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#137

Post by throwaway8582 »

enriquto wrote: post #46
Roritharr wrote: post #9

The craziest part of this american culture war, to me, is that it seems to spill over to the rest of the world. My sister and I, living in Germany, have a very loving relationship, but we absolutely disagree on almost everything political and basically are stuck in our seperate bubbles. This gave us an interesting observation: 5 years ago it took us about two to three months, to have a fight over something that start…

[flagged]

A better example would be: "Islam is right about women"

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#138

Post by dec0dedab0de »

javert wrote: post #88
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the theme is more along the lines of blame people with power, do not blame people without power. It just so happens that people who focus on accumulating money, are usually focused on accumulating power.

The overwhelmingly vast majority of "wealthy" Americans have zero political power. Zero.

I think that depends on how you define wealthy. These days I consider it a net worth of at least $500 million.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#139

Post by 0xfaded »

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #34
0xfaded wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would equally blame the stagnant and supine institutions on the other side of the Atlantic that obsess over preserving the status quo while providing no meaningful alternative to American leadership. Whether it's culture, innovation, finance, it's all the same. Europe has become reliant on America and will accept anything in the name of Diplomacy through Trade.

Excuse me? Germany tries buying gas from Russia and the USA sanctions the fuck out of companies that are even just marginally involved in it. As for innovation, that's relative. Europe, for centuries, was the undisputed worldwide leader in innovation, now that has shifted a bit to the USA and seems to be on its way to shift to China or maybe India in the next few decades. There's also the problem that Europe can't re…

The whole gas thing is classic Diplomacy through Trade. Similarly for continuing to abide by the treaty with Iran to the degree possible while avoiding sanctions across the whole financial system.

Concrete example of European reliance on the US.

  1. NATO
  2. The US Fed for liquidity in the EU banking system
  3. Acquisition market for companies
  4. AWS, Azure, GCE, DO
  5. Netflix
My take is that cultural boundaries will erode once it becomes clear the prevailing cultural identity throughout Europe is not French, German, West or East, but unemployed millennial onward. As you say, it will be interesting to see how this turns out.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#140

Post by DarkWiiPlayer »

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #55
DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If American politics are straining your relationship with your sister and you are not even American, sorry to put it like this but only you two have yourselves to blame. Next time your sister brings the topic up say "yeah right" and move on. This. America is not actively shoving its politics into our conversations, we're doing that ourselves (I'm from Germany as well, btw.). Yes, talking about whatever social shena…

America is funding European academics to spread its toxic ideology. It's also shoving its culture in our news, movies, music, etc. Overstating personal responsibility in this matter is naive and very American.

> Overstating personal responsibility in this matter is naive and very American.

Not at all. You could say it's a "western" thing, but definitely not an USA thing (although they do tend to claim it for themselves like they invented it).

What's unique to the USA is the weird idea that personal responsibility is somehow a counter-argument to regulation. "Guns don't kill people, so everybody should be free to own them". At the same time, it's mostly the american left that argues against personal responsibility just because it's considered a right-wing belief.

To come to a conclusion: As so often, the USA is wrong, on both sides. The only "right" mentality, in my opinion, is one that acknowledges both personal responsibility and the option for society to step in.

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