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A Worsening Culture War

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Re: A Worsening Culture War

#51

Post by lotsofpulp »

bluntfang wrote: post #37
lotsofpulp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand “red/blue” shit. For me, it’s “improving quality of life for wage earners and affirming civil liberties / vs not doing the aforementioned” shit. A cousin in my family has a very valid grievance against business owner uncles that support politicians who don’t want to provide meal breaks or bathroom breaks. This cousin has to work 12 to 14 hour shifts, and eat standing up while working and sneak in b…

No offense, but neither the 2 major parties in the US are left/workers rights. I don't see any candidate running on the "improve quality of life for wage earners" platform. for example Joe "nothing with fundamentally change" Biden...and well the last 4 years.

See the list of states with parental leave:

https://www.patriotsoftware.com/blog/payroll/states-with-pai...

Similarly, see the list of states (and cities) with half decent unemployment benefits, minimum wage laws, non tipped wages, sick leave, required meal breaks, non compete bans, Medicaid, marijuana legalization, etc.

You will see a trend in which parties’ governance wage earners have these benefits (which are a pittance compared to civilized countries in the first place) and which don’t.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#53

Post by eplanit »

moomin wrote: post #2

This thing is phrased in a really weird way. First: "The left believe the right are dumb and don't have values" followed by "Evidence the left are correct" then "They're as bad as each other".

The Right looks at the Left and finds them misguided and stupid. The Left looks at the Right and finds them evil.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#54

Post by refurb »

colordrops wrote: post #43
porpoise wrote: post #14

The cause of culture war, as with all wars, is at bottom boredom, and the cure is to find intrinsically motivating pursuits that engage you so much that you look upon the culture warrior the same way you look upon those who spend all day playing videos games.

If there wasn't massive inequality and poverty to be tapped, bored energy wouldn't be so easily redirected to the culture war.

Oh please. You think it's the poor who is spending hours on Twitter arguing with each other? Or watching CNN for hours a day? They don't have the time nor is it of any consequence to their lives. They're too busy trying to pay this month's rent.

It's all middle and upper-middle class Americans who have the luxury and time to spend time on social media (often at work).

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#55

Post by ad404b8a372f2b9 »

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #27
eznzt wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The craziest part of this american culture war, to me, is that it seems to spill over to the rest of the world. It does not seem so crazy to me, after decades of cultural imperialism from America, that we are mirroring the same patterns of behaviour and fighting the same battles. (Just to be clear, I'm not against imperialism) If American politics are straining your relationship with your sister and you are not even…

> If American politics are straining your relationship with your sister and you are not even American, sorry to put it like this but only you two have yourselves to blame. Next time your sister brings the topic up say "yeah right" and move on. This. America is not actively shoving its politics into our conversations, we're doing that ourselves (I'm from Germany as well, btw.). Yes, talking about whatever social shena…

America is funding European academics to spread its toxic ideology. It's also shoving its culture in our news, movies, music, etc. Overstating personal responsibility in this matter is naive and very American.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#56

Post by motohagiography »

The wealthy as the plotters in this article overlooks a change in the last 50 years. A century ago, private industrial wealth and power were in effect synonymous, but today the industrial wealthy are relative front men to a core of institutional players with considerably less wealth, but who have the levers of policy that pervade every micro aspect of life now.The wealthy people I know are not running the culture wars, they are toeing the party line as an appeasement plan to what they perceive as the mob. In this sense, any opposition they might have had has been neutralized.

The taboo I think is it's not a culture war, it's a class war that sets largely publicly employed people against mostly privately employed ones. For all the rhetoric around race, this is mostly a Girardian schism between white city "burghers" and their country "redneck" complement. The former see their role as global, and the latter see their identity as national.

I don't think even a model with predictive power can do much to mitigate the consequences. It may have festered too long. If you destroy what a culture has built, it will have to contend with you and your organizations to rebuild afterwards.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#57

Post by Apotheos »

im3w1l wrote: post #28
harryf wrote: post #12

The real question to me is whether FaceBook and Google are _deliberately_ complicit in creating devisive bubbles through recommendation systems or whether that’s just an unfortunate byproduct that’s unfixable? In Taiwan they have social media designed to reward agreement - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/27/taiwan-civic-h... - whether it’s truly successful or not I can’t say but if so, then Facebook and Go…

It's not that people want to create division. But the left becomes upset with your product if you show them rightwing opinions, so if you want to have rightwing content you have to make bubbles so they don't see it. This is what I have seen professionally. Edited a bit.

That seems a little simplified, specifically just categorizing it as left wing vs right wing.

If I recall from my Sociology studies, smaller minority opinions (in this case what you call "right wing ideas") coalesce into smaller silo'd communities BECAUSE their ideas do not resonate with any majority.

In a wide open environment, the minority ideas / culture would not survive, so the participants of the minority views shrink the environment into the bubbles so their ideas don't have as much competition.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#58

Post by lotsofpulp »

geerlingguy wrote: post #35
lotsofpulp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand “red/blue” shit. For me, it’s “improving quality of life for wage earners and affirming civil liberties / vs not doing the aforementioned” shit. A cousin in my family has a very valid grievance against business owner uncles that support politicians who don’t want to provide meal breaks or bathroom breaks. This cousin has to work 12 to 14 hour shifts, and eat standing up while working and sneak in b…

This viewpoint (where the unstated understanding is 'the group that is good is Democrats, and the group that is evil is Republicans') is part of the problem. The world is more complicated than that.

The viewpoint that both groups are just as bad or just as good for wage earners is a problem.

It’s easily verifiable that Democratic states have better laws for wage earners, and have pushed for policies that benefit wage earners. They’re nowhere near perfect, but there’s no reason to pretend Dems and Repubs are the same.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#59

Post by Aunche »

hprotagonist wrote: post #3

"That's all the media and the politicians are ever talking about, the things that separate us, things that make us different from one another. That's the way the ruling class operates in any society. They try to divide the rest of the people. They keep the lower and the middle classes fighting with each other so that they the rich, can run off with all the fucking money. Fairly simple thing. Happens to work. You know…

Virtually everything about that Carlin quote is completely wrong. There is no business in the world outside of news media (which includes the author) that makes or preserves money from the middle class fighting with the lower class. They'd rather the power classes get over their differences so they can make money off them. The top 1% in US pay more taxes in taxes than the bottom 90%. Before you ask, I do think that they should be paying more rather than less.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#60

Post by Loughla »

bluntfang wrote: post #37
lotsofpulp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand “red/blue” shit. For me, it’s “improving quality of life for wage earners and affirming civil liberties / vs not doing the aforementioned” shit. A cousin in my family has a very valid grievance against business owner uncles that support politicians who don’t want to provide meal breaks or bathroom breaks. This cousin has to work 12 to 14 hour shifts, and eat standing up while working and sneak in b…

No offense, but neither the 2 major parties in the US are left/workers rights. I don't see any candidate running on the "improve quality of life for wage earners" platform. for example Joe "nothing with fundamentally change" Biden...and well the last 4 years.

That's what people missed about Trump's supporters in 2016. People genuinely believed he was going to work for the common man. He talked about workers rights (in a xenophobic sort of way, but still) he talked about increasing pay for blue collar workers, and about restoring the lost legacy to places that have been abandoned by globalization.

That never got talked about by Trump detractors. Union working class Joe-Schmoe's used to vote democrat, and now solidly do not. There's a reason for that.

Edit: Please note that I never said he did those things, just that they were what he promised. He is completely full of crap on almost everything he says, those promises at the top of the pile. But that is the reason working class Joe love him. He says the things they want to hear.

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