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Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

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Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#761

Post by metalforever »

coldtea wrote: post #732
rini17 wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but offering no machine suitable for developers and power users will eventually hurt them when they leave whole ecosystem.

I think the developers and power users that still use desktop machines/towers are either very cpu-power-hungry niche exception, or the more backwards ones, and thus least likely to influence/be imitated by anyone...

Or ...they're old and cant see the tiny laptop screen or get back pain when using a laptop all hunched over. To be honest, I don't know how anyone does serious work on them.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#762

Post by intricatedetail »

cwhiz wrote: post #718
matsemann wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My Mac? Almost nothing I run is from the App Store. For now.

People have been making these comments for years. Every new macOS release. Except here we are and things are the same. I run whatever I want. Here’s to having this same silly “argument” in 2021.

Its just that the frog is being boiled quite slowly. Apple every year is doing tiny little steps towards full control what customer can run on "their" computer and people instead of trying to stop them in their tracks, they defend them. It's bizarre and funny at the same time. Then if few years people will be crying they cannot publish software without being robbed and we will say "I told you so".

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#763

Post by DarkmSparks »

marcodave wrote: post #738
DarkmSparks wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people whose knowledge of computers stops at "browse the web, stream some Netflix, maybe edit some documents" Is the new "peoples whose knowledge of reading and writing stops at being able to sign their name".

do you know how your car/microwave/dishwasher/TV works, to the detail of the engine, the type of tires, and would you be able to repair/exchange/hack parts of it? I don't, and I really don't see the point of knowing to be able to do so, as my hobbies/curiosity lies somewhere else -- for some, computers are just another household appliance (and a particularly complex one)

I, as Im sure applies to you, know what they are and the differences between them.

Which is more than can be said of people who dont know or understand their M1s from their Celerons.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#764

Post by brian_cunnie »

m463 wrote: post #659
tolien wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because as the sibling comments point out, the price of a Mac Pro isn't just an "Apple Tax^WPremium" over a desktop machine but is an order of magnitude more expensive (assuming you don't care about workstation-class components, i.e. Xeon Ws, Radeon Pro GPUs and ECC RAM). There's an enormous price gap between a Mac Mini and the Mac Pro (especially when the Mini now has higher single-threaded performance than the base…

I've had a continuous string of Mac Pros from G3 to 2012 (MacPro 5,1) my main workhorse. I have continually updated and expanded it. The 2013 mac pro was a mess. pass. The latest mac pro... I think it wasn't just expensive, it was sort of sucker expensive.

> The 2013 mac pro was a mess.

I appreciate that the 2013 mac pro wasn't for you, but it was perfect for me: small but powerful. Firstly: RAM. I was able to install 64 GiB on it, which enabled me to run Cloud Foundry on ESXi on Virtual Workstation on macOS. Non-Xeon chipsets maxed-out at (IIRC) 16 GiB and then later 32 GiB—not enough.

Secondly, size & esthetics: it fits on my very small console table that I use as a desk. I have a modest apartment in San Francisco, and my living room is my office, and although I had a mini-tower in my living room, I didn't like the looks.

Third, expandability: I was able to upgrade the RAM to 64 GiB, the SSD to 1 TB. I was able to upgrade the monitor to 4k. It has 6 Thunderbolt connections.

My biggest surprise was how long it has lasted: I typically rollover my laptops every year or so, but this desktop? It's been able to do everything I've needed it to do for the last 7 years, so I continue to use it.

[edited for grammar]

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#765

Post by Slartie »

alphachloride wrote: post #258

What does it mean to be an 8-core GPU? 8-CPU I can understand. But I thought GPUs were supposed to have a lot more cores for parallelism.

It means absolutely nothing. Because every GPU vendor has a different notion of what a "core" is. Some count the smallest parallel execution unit as a "core" and thus boast chips with thousands of "cores", some group these smallest units into larger units and count those as a "core", which results in smaller numbers of "cores" per chip. I would guess Apple is doing the latter. I don't think that it's possible to deliver the graphics performance the M1 is delivering with just eight "cores" in terms of smallest computational units.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#766

Post by pdpi »

speleding wrote: post #739
coldtea wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the developers and power users that still use desktop machines/towers are either very cpu-power-hungry niche exception, or the more backwards ones, and thus least likely to influence/be imitated by anyone...

I care to differ (as a developer on a desktop). The reason for developing on a desktop is that my productivity is much higher with 3 screens, one of which is a 40 inch, a full 101 key keyboard and a mouse.

All of which are available on modern laptops

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#767

Post by gpderetta »

saagarjha wrote: post #340
gpderetta wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would that work? The refcount need to be on the pointee, not on the pointer.

It’s stored in the isa pointer inside the object.

thanks, it makes sense now.

For what I understand, the isa pointer is sorta-kinda similar to a vtable pointer in C++.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#768

Post by intricatedetail »

DarkmSparks wrote: post #523

One of the things I've noticed recently, and especially since the CPU space started finally moving again is how much of a divide there now is between the computer literate, and the computer illiterate. It probably creates a social divide at least that which existed when the majority of people couldn't read or write, and is just as "not OK". Example of this in the first paragraph of this article: > For everyday users…

You shouldn't be tech savvy to have your right to privacy respected. We need regulation to compel companies like Apple to stop harvesting data they don't have legitimate need for. Any surveillance should be opt in only.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#769

Post by hrktb »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #603
hrktb wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the parent comment is just completely ignoring the argument of the post they reply to. Just looking at the first sentences: GP: > I have zero issues with an Apple premium or paying a lot for hardware. parent: > the hackintosh/enthusiast market [...] are the most price conscious segment

Then buy the new Mac Pro? I don't understand why that's not an option for GP.

I don't totally agree with GP, but I think their global point was that during a long time (all the 2010s ?) there was just no decent Mac Pro.

Outside of the Mac mini, the most powerful desktop machine was actually iMacs, with all the compromises that come with the form factor, and the trashcan Mac Pro who was thermally constrained.

In that period, no amount of money would have helped to get peak storage + network + graphic performance for instance.

We are now in a slightly better place where as you point out, throwing insane amounts of money towards Apple solves most of these issues. Except for those who don't want a T2 chip, or need an open bootloader.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#770

Post by Plasmoid2000ad »

ericmay wrote: post #750
rini17 wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but offering no machine suitable for developers and power users will eventually hurt them when they leave whole ecosystem.

> Okay, but offering no machine suitable for developers You mean... software developers? The same people who almost universally use a Mac?

There's a massive US centric bubble when it comes to Apple. iPhones and Macbooks are not in the majority, let alone universal, with software developers as whole, just in pockets
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