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No surprises here – On the absence of information in today’s media

turningchaos.com

71–80 of 105 posts

Re: No surprises here – On the absence of information in today’s media

#71
My biggest frustration with reporting is when the reporter provides some number without context.

“$1 billion was cut from X program”

How big is that program?

But they so often leave off how large the total program is.

The worst is when the cut was actually done do a planned budget increase. So the headline should have read “$1 billion in budget increases were cancelled”

Re: No surprises here – On the absence of information in today’s media

#72
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about this. Once you've covered the sun-progress-scenario, it's covered. Stop covering it. Also, don't lead with the exact same sun story as 300 other news orgs. Perform actual journalism instead.

Can you be explicit with the types of stories you're referencing? What are "covered" stories that the media still writes about but should stop?

They do it with most subjects because they don't have enough original content to fill in the time.

Re: No surprises here – On the absence of information in today’s media

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Business model may favor such a behavior but in my opinion its ethics should be considered as well. For example, many cars generate some air pollution. But there are some, typically more expensive ones, which produce less or no air pollution. It may be economically beneficial to simply buy the cheapest one. But some people choose the less polluting cars anyway, perhaps also because they incorporate ethics into their…

Systems thinking is important here. The majority of people, the majority of the time, are some combination of lazy, stupid, and greedy. Isolated efforts to be moral and wise don't move the needle substantially.

People follow their incentives. Given the choice, they usually want to change those incentives so they're incentivised to be better.

Re: No surprises here – On the absence of information in today’s media

#74
post #2

> our opinions should be formed from a careful examination of arguments and evidence on each side of the issue, reading from only one perspective is akin to not reading at all The elephant in the room not addressed in this essay is the widespread use of bad faith arguments, and the absence or dismissal of evidence in preference of beliefs and feelings. On some issues it can be extremely difficult to find good faith a…

> and the absence or dismissal of evidence in preference of beliefs and feelings.

This, I think is one of the most defining feature of Post-modernism where the notion of truth is challenged.

If every belief and every opinion can be as valid as any other (by virtue of itself) it is really hard to have a debate.

This is kind of a circular reasoning where the existence of the opinion is the proof of it's validity.

Re: No surprises here – On the absence of information in today’s media

#75
"News is what someone doesn't want published. All else is publicity".

A useful exercise is to look at a news site and ask which items started as a press release, or are simply an opinion piece, vs ones which contain info someone had to go and dig out. For many lesser news sources, it's 100% PR, because they have no real reporters.

That's the real absence of information.

Re: No surprises here – On the absence of information in today’s media

#76
post #56

As I read this, I think what the author is saying is that today's media is more about creating "Narratives" rather than communicating "Information." My Grandfather, who was an attorney, shared with me that attorneys cut apart narratives with evidence to get to the truth. If all of the evidence is available, the only surviving narrative is most likely the truest representation of an event. At the time, I didn't apprec…

A huge part of narrative building is story selection. If there are groups A, B, C all of which do good and bad stuff to each other, media will create a narrative by highlighting again and again bad things that A does to B, leaving out the good things, leaving out what B does, and leaving out C entirely.

Definitely. And with today's vast amount of information and stories available, it's not difficult to do so. It's nicely explained in https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/09/16/cardiologists-and-chin...

Re: No surprises here – On the absence of information in today’s media

#77
post #2

> our opinions should be formed from a careful examination of arguments and evidence on each side of the issue, reading from only one perspective is akin to not reading at all The elephant in the room not addressed in this essay is the widespread use of bad faith arguments, and the absence or dismissal of evidence in preference of beliefs and feelings. On some issues it can be extremely difficult to find good faith a…

As it turns out, almost nobody actually wants a good faith argument. Public people that routinely engage in good faith arguments, with carefully considering opposing viewpoints, scrupulously and honestly analyzing evidence and making conclusion based on the strength of the argument presented - are routinely attacked for being harmful to whatever cause the activists prefer, not seeing the larger point, enabling the $BAD_GUYS, playing into the hands of $MORE_BAD_GUYS, being motivated by $ISM and $PHOBIA, and get whole online communities organized with a sole purpose of bringing them down, deplatforming them, de-employing them and generally getting them to stop what they are doing.

OTOH, the bad faith arguers are getting praise in the media, adoration from their peers, popularity, well-paid speaking opportunities, pompous awards and get their bad argument - which is usually much simpler and palatable than a good one - endlessly repeated and praised. Sometimes even taught to large groups of people as the paradigm they have to conform to from now on.

Re: No surprises here – On the absence of information in today’s media

#78

This is an interesting take. Are the total bytes of text, pictures, and video produced by the news media some significant fraction of the total bytes output by humanity? I'm not sure but also I'm not sure why it matters. I wonder why people seem to be surprised/upset/perturbed at news media polarization. Humans read the news for fun/excitement/engagement/etc. The vast majority don't have to read the news, they choose…

The news media is called the “fourth estate” for a reason. Many people believe it is a foundational element of democracy. I am one of them and I am “upset/perturbed” at the news media’s decline. You seem to accept that it is in decline but say that’s just “a reflection of humanity.” Isn’t that something to be upset about? If the media can become more polarised and less factual, couldn’t it also move in the other direction? Can’t we be upset that this is not happening, and propose political solutions, in the same way that we reform other political institutions?

Re: No surprises here – On the absence of information in today’s media

#79
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The elephant in the room not addressed in this essay is the widespread use of bad faith arguments, and the absence or dismissal of evidence in preference of beliefs and feelings This highlights both a problem an opportunity. How many people know how to make a good argument or how to spot one? How many know what good evidence looks like or how to spot beliefs and assumptions making their way into something? I would…

I absolutely agree. I have been tempted to buy the logical fallacies and critical thinking posters from The Thinking Shop[1] as gifts for certain family members, but I know too much of my motivation comes from the self-centered position of wanting to prove I'm right, which I didn't want to perpetuate. Instead I just read through the posters and ended up recognizing several items I probably need to work on myself. The…

These are nice but I find the message "thou shalt not suffer cognitive biases" a bit off base - as you very well will suffer from them. It's like saying "you shalt not think of a white monkey" - and you will. The goal should be not to make people feel bad for failing yet again to be free of biases - the goal is to learn to detect them and work around them. You cannot make people fly by flapping their hands - but you can build tools that let people fly while they are sitting comfortably in their chairs. There should also be tools and processes built that allow even biased people to arrive to a correct conclusion, without demanding the impossible from them.

Re: No surprises here – On the absence of information in today’s media

#80
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely agree. I have been tempted to buy the logical fallacies and critical thinking posters from The Thinking Shop[1] as gifts for certain family members, but I know too much of my motivation comes from the self-centered position of wanting to prove I'm right, which I didn't want to perpetuate. Instead I just read through the posters and ended up recognizing several items I probably need to work on myself. The…

There are twenty four logical fallacies listed there... twenty four Genuine question: how does one keep 24 logical fallacies in mind when evaluating arguments? Do you mentally iterate through all these fallacies? Don't get me wrong: they are very valid and I think they will make me better and my arguments better. I just want to understand how people without photographic memories do this.

You don't keep them in mind. You build processes and algorithms and habits to avoid them. When you learn to ride a bike or play baseball, you don't learn the laws of physics that govern the flight of the ball or the ride on the bike in detail - though basic awareness of gravity and such surely helps. You learn the process that gets you to the goal. Unfortunately, we're way behind on such processes, compared to baseball.
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