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Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

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Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll be interesting what happens in a couple of years if server side gets more mixed with ARM as well.

Unless AWS starts selling their graviton CPU, whose going to create chips for the arm server market? The volumes are huge and the margins are tiny, which is not something Apple was ever interested in.

Ampere and Marvell have already.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#532

PSA: however impressive the M1 hardware is, you're still going to be stuck using OSX, playing in Apple's walled garden and being subjected to their awful policies. I'll gladly join the groupie crowd once Linux runs stable on it.

Given that Linux desktop cannot properly utilize even the limited amounts of very common HW accelerators build into AMD and Intel chips (video decoders) and the existing GPU's (all of them suck in different ways), running Linux on M1 would be a waste of everything without giving Linux any noticeable improvement over existing x86 machines.

Accelerated video decode worked fine on my AMD card, actually. Some codecs weren't supported, but it was pretty much functional.

On Nvidia, I literally just had to install one package and I never had to think about video decode acceleration again.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#533
post #514

I might have an explanation for the reduced RAM consumption thanks to the M1 chip: RAM compression ( https://www.lifewire.com/understanding-compressed-memory-os-... ). I'm using zram on manjaro and I see it as a trade-off between RAM and CPU power.

TBH this sounds like Windows '95 era "RAM doublers" like SoftRAM 95 :D

This is a nice retrospective on SoftRAM: https://youtu.be/8rxssVFeKr8

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't have issues with paying a lot for hardware, why don't you buy Mac Pro?

Obviously “I’m willing to pay a lot” can mean a wide range of things, but pretty clearly the comment is talking about paying a moderate premium over the competition. The same way a MacBook Pro model might cost $2500 where you could get a similarly specked windows laptop for $1800. Or an iPhone might cost 30% more than a similar android flagship. It’s an order of magnitude different with the Mac Pro, the base model is…

I don't mind paying for a new Apple, but I do mind paying for repairs on a system that fails just after the warranty runs out. Paying $1500 for a new computer every 5 years or so is good. Paying $1500 for a computer every 16 months, not so much.

The monitor on my MacBook Pro just died, and I bought it July of last year. The repair was about $850 USD. Luckily my credit card covered the hardware warranty, but I'm kind of wishing I'd bought AppleCare.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very easy to perform very well on a specific benchmark when there's dedicated hardware for this. I'm not saying this isn't good, it's great for people editing, but this isn't a general indicator of performance (which is reportedly good!)

> It's very easy to perform very well on a specific benchmark when there's dedicated hardware for this. I'd say the same about GPUs as well. It's great for people who game, but beyond a certain baseline, it's pretty pointless for most of us. > I'm not saying this isn't good, it's great for people editing, but this isn't a general indicator of performance Umm, it's also great for people who watch YouTube or Netflix. Z…

GPUs, unlike video decoders, are programmable and general in purpose.

As for Zoom, YouTube, and Netflix, existing hardware is more than fine enough. No one is streaming 8K RAW for a conference call. Unless you're an editor, you won't see much of a benefit.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone please correct me for the sake of all of us if I’m wrong, but it sounds like Apple is using specialized hardware for “NSObject” retain-and-release operations, which may bypass/reduce the impact on general RAM.

it makes objective c and swift memory management faster but it doesn’t reduce ram usage at all. (maybe a weee bit less bandwidth used)

If memory is released as soon as possible instead of waiting for the next GC cycle, does not it make it more efficient?

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> emulating virtualized x86 code I don't think this is an issue for Docker. They can run an ARM64 Linux VM instead of the current x86 one, and then use QEMU to run x86 Docker containers within it if they want. The bummer is that this won't be taking advantage of Rosetta 2 so it'll likely perform bad, but it might be good enough for debugging the odd image or even development depending on _how_ bad.

> I don't think this is an issue for Docker. They can run an ARM64 Linux VM instead of the current x86 one, and then use QEMU to run x86 Docker containers within it if they want. If youre at the point where you have to run a container running inside an emulator inside a VM on an ARM Mac then you should just get an x86 linux machine and enjoy performance and native support for containers.

This is not what running an ARM64 Linux VM means.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#539

PSA: however impressive the M1 hardware is, you're still going to be stuck using OSX, playing in Apple's walled garden and being subjected to their awful policies. I'll gladly join the groupie crowd once Linux runs stable on it.

> Apple's walled garden Apparently over the years the definition of "Walled Garden" has drifted a lot. The iPhone has a "Walled Garden", unless you jailbreak, it's very difficult to run anything outside the App Store. My Mac? Almost nothing I run is from the App Store. Nothing needs to be from the App Store. Most of what I run doesn't even go through Gatekeeper and it certainly never touches software I build or compi…

The parent was complaining about being forced to use OS X. So, the "walled garden" is intended for the underlying hardware.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It just says "oh, it's a hardware toggle"; toggle of what exactly? A toggle that makes the chip treat all loads and stores from that thread as TSO.

so you're saying somehow Rosetta2 is looking at an x86 binary and figuring out exactly which portions of the program rely on the TSO ordering for correctness and then dynamically switches to weak ordering for parts that might be able to do without? I don't really know much about the internals of macOS but figuring out when there are applications for example running on two different cores (since TSO is only really nee…

No; it’s not explained very well but the M1 chip features hardware support for TSO which Rosetta2 uses.

It’s really ‘Apple Silicon’ and not just ARM.

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