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Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

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Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw that point brought up on Twitter and I don't know how it it makes more efficient use of RAM. Specifically, as I understood it is that Apple software (written in objective C/Swift) uses a lot of retain/release (or Atomic Reference Counting) on top of manual memory, for memory management rather than other forms of garbage collection (such as those found in Java/C#), which gives Objective C programs a lower memory…

The only thing I can think of that would actually reduce memory usage on M1 vs the same version of MacOS on x86 would be if they were able to tune their compressed memory feature to run faster (with higher compression ratio) on the M1. That would serve to reduce effective memory usage or need to fall back to swap. I would not expect something like that to be responsible for more than, say, a 5-10% RAM usage decrease…

That would serve to reduce effective memory usage or need to fall back to swap. I would not expect something like that to be responsible for more than, say, a 5-10% RAM usage decrease though.

I think you can reach a lot more than that. Presumably, on Intel they use something like LZO or LZ4, since it compresses/decompresses without too much CPU overhead. But if you have dedicated hardware for something like e.g. Brotli or zstd, one could reach much higher compression ratios.

Of course, this is assuming that memory can be compressed well, but I think this is true in many cases. E.g. when selecting one of the program/library files in the squash benchmarks:

https://quixdb.github.io/squash-benchmark/

you can observe higher compression ratios for e.g. Brotli/gzip/deflate than LZO/LZ4.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#492
post #460

A moment when a tech giant can build a computer from bottom to top.

Apple does use TSMC to build the M1 itself. So it's not quite bottom to top like the early computers up to the early to mid 90s, when a number of the workstation companies (eg. DEC, IBM, HP) still had their own fabs to make the CPUs.

Apple doesn't make anything physical.

Like, nothing. They design the whole computer, from chip to OS, but they own no factories.

Which is pretty remarkable, when you think about it. If you went back to the DEC era and said that the most valuable vendor of computers in the world would do no manufacturing in 2020, not many people would buy it.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't understand - Windows 10 Pro comes with tons of pre-installed junk - Candy Crush etc. Just charge what you need to, business don't want this stuff.

Well, large businesses at least get Windows 10 Enterprise, which doesn't come with all of that nonsense. The real shame is that you can't get Windows 10 Enterprise without a volume license.

You can get a 90 day demo of Windows 10 Enterprise from Microsoft: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-windows-...

Install it in a virtual machine, every 90 days make a new virtual machine from scratch. That or use the secret code to reset the demo days. Enter an Enterprise key when you want to register it for real.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#495

PSA: however impressive the M1 hardware is, you're still going to be stuck using OSX, playing in Apple's walled garden and being subjected to their awful policies. I'll gladly join the groupie crowd once Linux runs stable on it.

Does "Linux run stable" on existing Macs? Not that I know of, 15 years after the introduction of Intel Macs.

You might have to wait forever.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every 8gb mac I’ve used before was fine, and that was with running Xcode, Firefox, photoshop, mail, terminal, and other programs.

Seriously, I'm utterly baffled by all the people claiming that 8 GB isn't enough for the average user. The only situation I ever ran into where it was a problem was in trying to run multiple VM's at once. Otherwise it's just a non-issue. Programs often reserve a lot more memory than they actually use (zero hit in performance) so memory stats are misleading, and the OS is really good at swapping memory not touched in…

> Programs often reserve a lot more memory than they actually use (zero hit in performance) so memory stats are misleading, and the OS is really good at swapping memory not touched in a while to the SSD without you noticing.

The stats are absolutely reliable because no physical memory page is allocated until it is actually used to store something. So allocating a large chunk of unused memory wouldn't show in the (physical) memory usage stat.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#497

I didn't really understand the TSO explanation given in this article and found it to be a bit hand-wavy. The article says to emulate the x86 TSO consistency model on an ARM machine which is weakly ordered you have to add a bunch of instructions which would make the emulation slow. I followed that much but then after that it doesn't really explain how they would get around these extra instructions needed to guarantee…

> It just says "oh, it's a hardware toggle"; toggle of what exactly?

A toggle that makes the chip treat all loads and stores from that thread as TSO.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same what Apple did with wireless bluetooth audio. There were already companies making them but they didn't try their best. When Apple made Airpods, it defined them as a new category and every company started pushing their own take on it. Now we plenty of good options to choose from. ARM was typically making very conservative reference designs keeping PPA in mind but now that they have customers asking for a…

Apple isn't just now entering into this space with the M1 though, it's been this bad for 5 years vs Qualcomm already the change is now even the best power hungry x86 cores can't keep up with it. What Apple is delivering in the M1 continues to be 2 generations ahead of the Qualcomm's best in terms of performance an the +10% uplift on the usual +20% generational increase isn't changing that - Apple has been doing that…

I am not really a knowledgeable person when it comes to CPUs, I just follow what Anandtech posts. And reading his comments on X1 it looks like ARM (and thus Qualcomm) are just being too conservative because there was really no business need for a non-Apple company to make such a large chip. But now there is, so it won't be impossible for them to catch up. Huawei's Kirin 9000 is already scoring close to A14 in multi core benchmarks and this is based on a year old A77 cortex design.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#500
post #57

Not to speak for anyone else, but one thing I gently disagree with: > Given that Hackintoshers are a particular bunch who don’t take kindly to the Apple-tax[...] I have zero issues with an Apple premium or paying a lot for hardware. I think a major generator of interest in hackintoshes has been that there are significant segments of computing that Apple has simply completely (or nearly completely) given up on, includ…

If you don't have issues with paying a lot for hardware, why don't you buy Mac Pro?

Obviously “I’m willing to pay a lot” can mean a wide range of things, but pretty clearly the comment is talking about paying a moderate premium over the competition. The same way a MacBook Pro model might cost $2500 where you could get a similarly specked windows laptop for $1800. Or an iPhone might cost 30% more than a similar android flagship.

It’s an order of magnitude different with the Mac Pro, the base model is a $6000 machine that will perform like a ~$1500 PC. And the base model makes no sense to buy, it’s really a $10k-$30k machine. It’s a completely different product category.

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