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Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

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Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#401

Post by ed25519FUUU »

zamadatix wrote: post #360
koffiezet wrote: post #188

I understand the machine is great or going to be great for most use cases. My mbp is my main workhorse, but as a freelance SRE "devops" guy, the Apple ARM platform won't be suitable for my job any time soon, if ever. Docker is not yet available - but even when it would become available, emulating virtualised x86 code is explicitly not going to be supported. That in many cases means pulling a docker image built in a c…

It'll be interesting what happens in a couple of years if server side gets more mixed with ARM as well.

Unless AWS starts selling their graviton CPU, whose going to create chips for the arm server market? The volumes are huge and the margins are tiny, which is not something Apple was ever interested in.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#402

Post by kelchm »

ben-schaaf wrote: post #319
kllrnohj wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not very good, but the recent Ryzen offerings are still pretty strong, as is the very newest Intel stuff. See for example the 4900HS & 4800U on this Anandtech chart comparing spec2017 vs. the M1: https://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph16252/119365.png That's basically just sorted by power consumption. 4900HS is the most power used & fastest, followed by the ~22W M1 with all 8 cores loaded, then the 15W 480…

And the thing to remember here is that the 4900HS and 4800U aren't just a process node behind, they're 2 full generations behind. Given the gains from Zen 3 it looks like AMD is in a good position to leapfrog the M1 with the next product cycle, not to mention gains from 5nm in the cycle after that.

You say that as if Apple hasn’t been delivering yearly performance improvements in their SoCs like clockwork. They’ve roughly tripled the performance in the last five years between the A9 and A14.

AMD has done a great job with Zen 3 in particular, but IMO they are going to really struggle to compete with what Apple is able to do with ARM.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#403

Post by SulfurHexaFluri »

hpb42 wrote: post #98

I'm curious about the Neural Engine cores. What software use this? Why would I want to buy a Neural Network coprocessor in my machine, instead of using that money for a better cpu/ram/ssd?

The iphone uses it for image recognition on your photo library so your data stays local.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#404

Post by woah »

crazygringo wrote: post #129
megablast wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every 8gb mac I’ve used before was fine, and that was with running Xcode, Firefox, photoshop, mail, terminal, and other programs.

Seriously, I'm utterly baffled by all the people claiming that 8 GB isn't enough for the average user. The only situation I ever ran into where it was a problem was in trying to run multiple VM's at once. Otherwise it's just a non-issue. Programs often reserve a lot more memory than they actually use (zero hit in performance) so memory stats are misleading, and the OS is really good at swapping memory not touched in…

It's the never ending mystery of Hacker News- how do the commenters on here get their computers to run so slowly?

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#405

Post by CraftThatBlock »

victor106 wrote: post #109

> A task like editing 8K RAW RED video file that might have taken a $5000 machine before can now be done on a $699 Mac Mini M1 or a fan-less MacBook Air that costs $999 That’s insanely great. Maybe I am exaggerating but Apple’s M1 might be the best innovation in the tech industry in the past 5 years.

It's very easy to perform very well on a specific benchmark when there's dedicated hardware for this.

I'm not saying this isn't good, it's great for people editing, but this isn't a general indicator of performance (which is reportedly good!)

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#406

Post by sneak »

1over137 wrote: post #263
sneak wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can turn off all the telemetry in macOS and they ask you if you want it on when you setup the computer. That's false. You can turn off OS analytics but there is tons of telemetry built into almost every Apple app, separate from that, that you cannot disable. It tells you about it on first app launch. Open Maps, for example, and it will tell you about the unique, rotating identifier it uses to track your searche…

Exactly. But at least pre-Big-Sur you could use Little Snitch to block Apple apps from sending things, but now that's no longer possible. :(

If you have an intel mac, you can still install LS 4.x (once you have booted into recovery to permit the kext) on Big Sur. HN user miles pointed this out recently, and it is awesome.

https://www.obdev.at/support/littlesnitch/245913651253917

It's 5.x that uses the new restricted APIs.

I'm going to contact the developers and ask for an ARM build of 4.x so the same trick will work on M1, at least until Apple forbids all kexts some time in the future.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#407

Post by donor20 »

throw0101a wrote: post #342
xoa wrote: post #57

Not to speak for anyone else, but one thing I gently disagree with: > Given that Hackintoshers are a particular bunch who don’t take kindly to the Apple-tax[...] I have zero issues with an Apple premium or paying a lot for hardware. I think a major generator of interest in hackintoshes has been that there are significant segments of computing that Apple has simply completely (or nearly completely) given up on, includ…

> I have zero issues with an Apple premium or paying a lot for hardware. Especially if the margins allow them to not engage in silliness on the software side of things like violating privacy and serving ads in the OS. There are certainly places that Apple can be criticized, but I think in these two areas they're acting pretty well.

What I don't understand - Windows 10 Pro comes with tons of pre-installed junk - Candy Crush etc. Just charge what you need to, business don't want this stuff.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#408

Post by chongli »

xoa wrote: post #57

Not to speak for anyone else, but one thing I gently disagree with: > Given that Hackintoshers are a particular bunch who don’t take kindly to the Apple-tax[...] I have zero issues with an Apple premium or paying a lot for hardware. I think a major generator of interest in hackintoshes has been that there are significant segments of computing that Apple has simply completely (or nearly completely) given up on, includ…

Apple does not want to offer to the hackintosh/enthusiast market because they are the most price conscious segment. Targeting that segment means putting out extremely performant, low-margin commodity machines. Doing so then cannibalizes the market for their ultra-high-end stuff.

Not only that, though. Enthusiasts are also extremely fickle and quick to jump ship to a cheaper hardware offering. If you look at all of Apple’s other markets, you’ll see loads of brand loyalty. Fickle enthusiasts don’t fit the mould.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#409

Post by nycticorax »

donor20 wrote: post #407
throw0101a wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have zero issues with an Apple premium or paying a lot for hardware. Especially if the margins allow them to not engage in silliness on the software side of things like violating privacy and serving ads in the OS. There are certainly places that Apple can be criticized, but I think in these two areas they're acting pretty well.

What I don't understand - Windows 10 Pro comes with tons of pre-installed junk - Candy Crush etc. Just charge what you need to, business don't want this stuff.

Well, large businesses at least get Windows 10 Enterprise, which doesn't come with all of that nonsense. The real shame is that you can't get Windows 10 Enterprise without a volume license.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#410

Post by mhh__ »

zamadatix wrote: post #360
koffiezet wrote: post #188

I understand the machine is great or going to be great for most use cases. My mbp is my main workhorse, but as a freelance SRE "devops" guy, the Apple ARM platform won't be suitable for my job any time soon, if ever. Docker is not yet available - but even when it would become available, emulating virtualised x86 code is explicitly not going to be supported. That in many cases means pulling a docker image built in a c…

It'll be interesting what happens in a couple of years if server side gets more mixed with ARM as well.

Linus Torvalds was and is probably still right that unless developers have the same breed of processor (not just AArch64 but the actual chipset, for example) on the bench it'll probably never be particularly prevalent server-side.

That and Apple presumably dream of not letting developers touch anything without going through their stack, so no touching the hardware for you. For example, I believe Apple expose Performance counters through Instruments in Xcode - but without a Mac to test it on I should say - it doesn't seem to be close to perf. The wider point being that Apple will probably never let you run Linux on their hardware, and your server will probably not be running MacOS either.

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