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Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

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Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#381

I just got one. I’m blown away by the speed as well. Chrome runs insanely fast! Alas, it’s not developer ready yet. Brew is a mess. Docker doesn’t work. PyCharm is WIP although can use x86 version. I was skeptical of the hype but this little laptop has made me realize how slow everything else is. Unfortunately, while the hardware has accelerated far beyond expectations, the software - specifically MacOS BigSur is a m…

Edit: It looks like satire. My bad :)

Doesn't your article here go directly against what you're saying? https://neil.computer/notes/hacker-news-design-is-ugly/

Specifically, you redesigned HN to have more "pop" and have rounded corners and padding: https://neil.computer/content/images/size/w1600/2020/07/Scre... which is exactly what you were saying macOS looks like...

Isn't that hypocritical?

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems pretty obvious that some future Macs will have touch screens or larger iPads will run MacOS. I’d buy a Surface Studio style iMac in a heartbeat.

Seems pretty obvious that some future Macs will have touch screens or larger iPads will run MacOS. Probably not. Apple has said they've prototyped touch screen Macs and from a UI/UX perspective, it doesn't really work. They've recently downplayed touchscreen Mac talk recently [1]. What Apple has shown is iPadOS becoming more like macOS, supporting a keyboard and a mouse instead of the other way around. I have a 2-in-…

Apple also said they weren't going to make a phone while they were working on a phone. A denial by Apple doesn't mean much (in either direction).

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#383

> cries in 2020 MBP We may need to start a support group

It's not all bad. 2020 non-M1 MBP is definitely the safe bet.

M1 machines have ways to go if you're going to use it as a developer. I hope they are worked out by the time the 16" M1 MBP gets released later next year. But I'd certainly get a non-M1 machine if I was replacing my daily driver today.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#384
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pretty much daily have to do a closing round to not run out of my 24GiB. That’s all web browsers (Usually 100-200 tabs), vs code with some extensions and 2x4k display.

But what do you even mean "run out"? This is what I don't get. If you have multiple browsers with hundreds of tabs, the majority of those tabs are probably swapped out to your SSD already. With swapfiles and SSD's, physical memory is less and less relevant except when you're performing very specific computational tasks that actually require everything to be simultaneously in memory -- things like highly complex video…

As a human, when I have many tabs open, I observe that everything gets really slow. All applications get slow, but especially the browser.

So I put on my engineering hat and pull up Activity Monitor and further observe (a) high memory pressure, (b) high memory consumption attributed to Chrome or Firefox, (c) high levels of swap usage, (d) high levels of disk I/O attributed to kerneltask or nothing, depending on macOS version, which is the swapper task.

I close some tabs. I then observe that the problems go away.

Swap isn't a silver bullet, not even at 3Gbytes/sec. It is slow. I haven't even touched on GPU memory pressure which swaps back to sysram, which puts further pressure on disk swap.

It's slow.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#385

I just got one. I’m blown away by the speed as well. Chrome runs insanely fast! Alas, it’s not developer ready yet. Brew is a mess. Docker doesn’t work. PyCharm is WIP although can use x86 version. I was skeptical of the hype but this little laptop has made me realize how slow everything else is. Unfortunately, while the hardware has accelerated far beyond expectations, the software - specifically MacOS BigSur is a m…

Edit: It looks like satire. My bad :) Doesn't your article here go directly against what you're saying? https://neil.computer/notes/hacker-news-design-is-ugly/ Specifically, you redesigned HN to have more "pop" and have rounded corners and padding: https://neil.computer/content/images/size/w1600/2020/07/Scre... which is exactly what you were saying macOS looks like... Isn't that hypocritical?

What the hell is going on here? Digging through someone's post history to figure out if there are contradictions in what someone says? Can we not just evaluate what people say on its own merit and instead of putting people under the lens for hypocrisy?

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s unclear to me how reduced availability of developer tooling will result in a faster software experience for M1 owners.

If developers are forced to use slow machines to develop, then they’re less likely to build bloaty slow software that depends on fast machines

Maybe, but also If developers are forced to use slow machines to develop, then they’re less likely to build. Full stop.

I'm actually in this situation right now. I develop a web application for event management. In some cases it's being used on older Chromebooks, where speed is, well, not there. While I'm testing on Chromebooks, I'm definitely not building my front end bundle on one. The faster machine I'm on, the faster I can iterate on building fast data tables, making intelligent choices about asset loading, etc.

So yeah, I think something like the Network Conditioner prefpane should exist to simulate a slow CPU for testing (does something like this exist?). But I very much enjoy my fast dev machine and I think it'll have the best overall outcome.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#387

This is fascinating: > Retain and release are tiny actions that almost all software, on all Apple platforms, does all the time. ….. The Apple Silicon system architecture is designed to make these operations as fast as possible. It’s not so much that Intel’s x86 architecture is a bad fit for Apple’s software frameworks, as that Apple Silicon is designed to be a bespoke fit for it …. retaining and releasing NSObjects i…

At the hardware level, does this mean they have a much faster TLB than competing CPU's, perhaps optimized to patterns in which NSObjects are allocated? Speaking of which, does Apple use a custom malloc or one of the popular implementations like C malloc, tcmalloc, jemalloc, etc.?

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#388

I’m starting to wonder if this is the reason we had some serious problems with macOS and iOS in recent months and years. Serious bugs and serious security flaws. The A-team was working on getting everything ready for M1. The B-team was working on the usual releases. If the M1 is as good as everyone says, then that means they had the best people on it.

I doubt the team designing the chips has much overlap with the OS team.

I think the suggestion is that the best OS developers were allocated to producing M1-compatible OS rather than maintaining x86-compatible OS.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#389
post #162

Exciting times ahead. I hope the rest catch up though. If Apple dominates completely it'll be carnage for competition

I do think it is too early to count out the competition. To be sure, the Air and 13" Pro are ultrabooks, and this seems to be a great fit for the great performance being extracted while sipping battery life. On the other hand, it's not a foregone conclusion that higher performance systems will dominate the competition. For most Apple-focused users, this is a comparison between overheating Intel chips shoved into Macs…

But the higher end "many" core CPUs (especially outside the Intel universe cough AMD) with much higher TDP are still achieving much higher overall performance. Apple still has to catch up to them in those markets.

    Did you see the AnandTech review of the Mac mini with the M1?
    The M1 undisputedly outperforms the core performance of
    everything Intel has to offer, and battles it with
    AMD’s new Zen3, winning some, losing some. And in
    the mobile space in particular, there doesn’t seem
    to be an equivalent in either ST or MT performance
    – at least within the same power budgets.

    What’s really important for the general public and Apple’s
    success is the fact that the performance of the M1 doesn’t
    feel any different than if  you were using a very
    high-end Intel or AMD CPU. Apple achieving this in-house
    with their own design is a paradigm shift, and in the
    future will allow them to achieve a certain level of
    software-hardware vertical integration that just hasn’t
    been seen before and isn’t achieved yet by anybody else.
And for many people, right now Apple systems just are not an option. Not until all software and games run without issue. Software is a near certainty - games remain to be seen, but Apple has not prioritized them in the past. (And while the M1 integrated graphics are great, they are not at all competitive with existing dedicated graphics, and will not be suitable for replacing gaming systems.)

AnandTech's section is called "M1 GPU Performance: Integrated King, Discrete Rival" which should tell you what's up. Spoiler—it's more than competitive with dedicated graphics and certainly none of them can touch it when it comes to power consumption. And remember, this is the *low-end chip; wait until what we see in the next generation.

    Finally, putting theory to practice, we have Rise of the Tomb Raider.
    Released in 2016, this game has a proper Mac port and a built-in
    benchmark, allowing us to look at the M1 in a gaming scenario and
    compare it to some other Windows laptops. This game is admittedly
    slightly older, but its performance requirements are a good match
    for the kind of performance the M1 is designed to offer. Finally,
    it should be noted that this is an x86 game – it hasn’t been ported
    over to Arm – so the CPU side of the game is running through Rosetta.

    At our 768p Value settings, the Mac Mini is delivering well over 60fps
    here. Once again it’s vastly ahead of the 2018 Intel-based Mac Mini,
    as well as every other integrated GPU in this stack. Even the 15-inch
    MBP and its Radeon Pro 560 are still trailing the Mac Mini by over 25%,
    and it takes a Ryzen laptop with a Radeon 560X to finally pull even
    with the Mac Mini.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#390
post #305
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can turn off all the telemetry in macOS and they ask you if you want it on when you setup the computer. That's false. You can turn off OS analytics but there is tons of telemetry built into almost every Apple app, separate from that, that you cannot disable. It tells you about it on first app launch. Open Maps, for example, and it will tell you about the unique, rotating identifier it uses to track your searche…

They’re working on the OCSP issue and I would say it’s more of a disclosure bug than telemetry, which implies intent. You’re right about Maps but you’re saying it’s “almost every app,” do you know of others? Because I’m pretty sure it’s not “almost every app,” and moreover in Maps it’s required to deliver the functionality, so I’m also not sure I would call it telemetry.

Stocks. Weather. News. Maps (has a unique ID across multiple interactions to serve as explicit telemetry). App Store (sends device serial). TV (sends device serial). iMessage (sends device serial).

Telemetry doesn't imply intent. Many things serve great as telemetry that aren't intended to be such. There's no way to limit the way the raw data collected can be mined later, offline.

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