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Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

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Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#351
post #212

I'm curious that the A12Z DTK Mac mini shows moderate Geekbench score under Rosetta 2. Is this means some improvements are not M1-only, but already in Ax processor?

A12Z has the necessary TSO hardware stuff, the remainder is that it is fairly fast itself and Apple did a good job in the Rosetta translator.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#352
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw that point brought up on Twitter and I don't know how it it makes more efficient use of RAM. Specifically, as I understood it is that Apple software (written in objective C/Swift) uses a lot of retain/release (or Atomic Reference Counting) on top of manual memory, for memory management rather than other forms of garbage collection (such as those found in Java/C#), which gives Objective C programs a lower memory…

Tfa says the hardware optimization for ARC is to the point of being bespoken. Hardware will always beat software optimization. Further, the other GCs have much higher ram overheads than this combined, bespoke system. Apple has decades of proven experience producing and shipping massively over engineered systems. I believe em when they say these processors do ARC natively.

I’m not denying that Apple has better ARC performance. It’s that I don’t understand how an application would use less memory on ARM than x86. I’d expect the ARM code to run faster (as a result of being able to do atomic operations faster), but I don’t see how that translates to less memory usage

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#353
post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree: this kind of thing is infuriating because it's such a slowdown to have to go touch the mouse and find the pointer on the screen. Really interrupts the workflow.

The stopwatch consistently proves it takes less time than using the keyboard. Apple's HCI research showed that people "lose" the time it takes to hunt and acquire the keyboard shortcuts.

I always found that study unconvincing. I am sure there are people who need to look at the keyboard but surely anyone who leaves their hands on the keyboard all the time and never looks down finds the keys instinctively.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#354

This is fascinating: > Retain and release are tiny actions that almost all software, on all Apple platforms, does all the time. ….. The Apple Silicon system architecture is designed to make these operations as fast as possible. It’s not so much that Intel’s x86 architecture is a bad fit for Apple’s software frameworks, as that Apple Silicon is designed to be a bespoke fit for it …. retaining and releasing NSObjects i…

I can't understand why less RAM is enough specially in Apple Silicon rather than Intel. Is the argument proved? RAM capacity is just RAM capacity. Possibly Swift-made apps uses less RAM compared to other apps, but microarchitecture shouldn't be matter.

I’m guessing swapping happens quicker, perhaps due to the unified memory architecture. With quicker swapping you’d be less likely to notice a delay.

That said I’d still be very hesitant buying a 8 GB M1 Mac. When my iMac only had 8 GB it was a real pain to use. Increasing my iMac’s memory to 24 GB made it usable.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#355

I just got one. I’m blown away by the speed as well. Chrome runs insanely fast! Alas, it’s not developer ready yet. Brew is a mess. Docker doesn’t work. PyCharm is WIP although can use x86 version. I was skeptical of the hype but this little laptop has made me realize how slow everything else is. Unfortunately, while the hardware has accelerated far beyond expectations, the software - specifically MacOS BigSur is a m…

It’s not fashion. Unfortunately you are wrong. Everything we call tech is in fact driven by fashion. My older version Mac is badgering me to upgrade to Bug Sur. Top feature: 100 new emojis. That is what Apple prioritised. Why the hell are emojis even part of the OS let alone its top feature! Truth is GUIs are done, were a decade or more ago. All there is left now is change for the sake of change. And Apple can’t thin…

I've read here and there, don't know how credible it is, that Apple uses emojis as a carrot to encourage people to take the update.

It is a cheap and immediately gratifying feature whereas users might not care about or understand the more substantive parts of an update.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every 8gb mac I’ve used before was fine, and that was with running Xcode, Firefox, photoshop, mail, terminal, and other programs.

Seriously, I'm utterly baffled by all the people claiming that 8 GB isn't enough for the average user. The only situation I ever ran into where it was a problem was in trying to run multiple VM's at once. Otherwise it's just a non-issue. Programs often reserve a lot more memory than they actually use (zero hit in performance) so memory stats are misleading, and the OS is really good at swapping memory not touched in…

> Seriously, I'm utterly baffled by all the people claiming that 8 GB isn't enough for the average user.

I may be not average, but just my Safari can take up >20GB—at least that's how much my "free" grows in MenuMeters when I quit it.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#357
post #168

Tin foil hat warning - but how much of the M1 performance improvement is from optimizations made in Big Sur for Apple Silicon that they just didn't bother implementing for x86 since it's now the outgoing technology for Apple? I realize the reducing in power consumed for any given quantity of work is downright amazing for laptops, but I guess I'm more curious about workstation and (build) server kinds of applications.…

That's basically what they did when they made the switch from PPC to x86. IIRC, there was an edict a few years before the switch (Jobs talked about it in an interview at the time) where teams were told something along the lines of not making any design/optimization decisions that were tied to PPC. They likely did the same thing with x86 this time.

I’ve seen x86_64 improvements go into macOS as recently as last year, so I don’t think this is really true.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#358

I just got one. I’m blown away by the speed as well. Chrome runs insanely fast! Alas, it’s not developer ready yet. Brew is a mess. Docker doesn’t work. PyCharm is WIP although can use x86 version. I was skeptical of the hype but this little laptop has made me realize how slow everything else is. Unfortunately, while the hardware has accelerated far beyond expectations, the software - specifically MacOS BigSur is a m…

It’s not fashion. Unfortunately you are wrong. Everything we call tech is in fact driven by fashion. My older version Mac is badgering me to upgrade to Bug Sur. Top feature: 100 new emojis. That is what Apple prioritised. Why the hell are emojis even part of the OS let alone its top feature! Truth is GUIs are done, were a decade or more ago. All there is left now is change for the sake of change. And Apple can’t thin…

GUIs are in a state of hysteresis at this point. A little more saturation in the UI elements, a little more purple on the background next release and more monochrome and more blue the release after.

I’m saying this like an old man (even though I’m not even close), but we’ve seen it before and we’ll see it again.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#359
post #309

I just got one. I’m blown away by the speed as well. Chrome runs insanely fast! Alas, it’s not developer ready yet. Brew is a mess. Docker doesn’t work. PyCharm is WIP although can use x86 version. I was skeptical of the hype but this little laptop has made me realize how slow everything else is. Unfortunately, while the hardware has accelerated far beyond expectations, the software - specifically MacOS BigSur is a m…

Run an open source OS if you don't want stuff ripped out from underneath you. Preferably one like gentoo or alpine.

All my PCs run open source OSs and this really isn’t true. The GNU/Linux landscape has changed wildly in the last 5 or so years. You’re only slightly less beholden to the people that maintain your OS than with proprietary systems because you still have to update eventually. A lot of BSDs are still roughly the same but being OSS doesn’t necessarily imply you’re free of change.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#360

I understand the machine is great or going to be great for most use cases. My mbp is my main workhorse, but as a freelance SRE "devops" guy, the Apple ARM platform won't be suitable for my job any time soon, if ever. Docker is not yet available - but even when it would become available, emulating virtualised x86 code is explicitly not going to be supported. That in many cases means pulling a docker image built in a c…

It'll be interesting what happens in a couple of years if server side gets more mixed with ARM as well.
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