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Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County CCW case

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Re: Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County CCW case

#931
post #921

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dianne Feinstein being the only CCW-holder in San Francisco for years while simultaneously pushing for stronger gun control. Do you have a source that there were no other CCW holders in SF at that time?

It's likely an exaggeration, but if so it's not much of one, and I can't rule it out actually being true at some point. https://revealnews.org/article/want-to-carry-a-concealed-gun... is an article saying there were 2 in SF in 2014, and that they basically never issue them. (They apparently last for two years before being renewed). It was apparently still the case in 2019, according to the hover-map on https://www.fr…

Feinstein claims that she no longer has a CCW permit, but that she once did. So while Feinstein once probably had most or all of the CCW permits issued in SF county, that is no longer true.

Re: Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County CCW case

#932
post #819

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please make the argument that licensing in general is a poll tax? This statement seems very outlandish to me and I cannot find any papers or articles to support it. The equal protection argument also seems incorrect to me. If this were the case, states would be under scrutiny for basically any discrepancy between their laws. Why should voters in Texas be required to show IDs when those in California aren't? W…

Here is a simple argument to support that stance. Under the 2nd amendment I have the constitutional right to bear arms. If I want to purchase a suppressor to limit hearing damage while firing my weapons I have to pay a $200 tax, send my fingerprints to the FBI and wait 6 months to a year and sometimes longer before I can take possession of my suppressor. There are no similar restrictions on the right to vote or speak…

I still do not see how any of these things are a poll tax. A poll tax is something that inhibits your right to vote by charging you money. For example, requiring a government-issued ID may be construed as a poll tax.

Are you arguing that regulations and taxes on guns and accessories are LIKE a poll tax because they inhibit exercising your interpretation of the 2nd amendment? If that is the case, I would argue that it is different as the 24th amendment specifically outlaws poll taxes and there is no similar law or amendment around firearm accessories.

Re: Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County CCW case

#933

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. That is what is likely being suggested. A well armed society is a polite society. But hey, if you live in an ivory tower, why let the common folk have a right to bear arms? Doesn't that sound elitist to you? A certain someone by the name of Ronald Reagan (yeah... that guy... the one worshiped by conservatives) signed the Mulford Act into law to keep Black Panthers from open carrying guns. California's history on…

To expand on this... there are virtually zero intentional homicides at gun ranges and gun shows where hundreds of weapons are present. Also all gun laws are discriminatory toward the poor and minorities disproportionately.

Yet mass shootings and gun violence only seem to occur overwhelmingly in countries where there is less friction to buy weapons (like the US).

Re: Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County CCW case

#934

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He absolutely had many other options. The only legal option I can see is "move out of CA", which probably means get another job. Which, you know, people sometimes do if they feel strongly about the right to carry, but likely wasn't in his set of considered options. > He was the chief security officer of the biggest company in the world. Oh, you're suggesting he use Apple to, uh, "lean on" the sheriff? That seems mu…

> The only legal option I can see is "move out of CA", which probably means get another job. Which, you know, people sometimes do if they feel strongly about the right to carry, but likely wasn't in his set of considered options. You didn't consider "report it to the DA, state police, or FBI" as an option? > Oh, you're suggesting he use Apple to, uh, "lean on" the sheriff? That seems much worse. One might even hope t…

I think both of your responses can be cleared up by noting that @nl was responding to, and quoted:

> the employee was put in the unfortunate immediate situation of either not getting their lawfully permitted license, or paying the bribe

In this context, "options" mean "options to fulfill the CCW licensing goal".

Reporting it to the DA, state police, the FBI, or anyone else wouldn't further the CCW licensing goal (though it might fulfill others, and I'm certainly not arguing against it!).

Similarly, saying he had other options (for "getting their lawfully permitted license") because he was the CSO of the biggest company in the world may well have other meanings I didn't catch, but reporting bribe solicitations is not one, unless the dialogue had already veered from it's previous aim.

Re: Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County CCW case

#935
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soliciting bribes is explicitly against the law, and that has nothing to do with "may" vs "shall" issue.

Please explain how this same scenario would work under a shall-issue scheme? Edit: Since you wouldn't respond... denying a permit under a shall-issue scheme would require proof that they didn't meet the statutory requirements instead of providing the issuer with the ability to hide their reason behind an arbitrary excuse.

> Since you wouldn't respond

I didn't respond because I was asleep (??)

> Please explain how this same scenario would work under a shall-issue scheme?

It doesn't matter: Soliciting bribes is against the law.

Everything else is just arguments about if a particular arrangement makes bribery more or less likely.

Re: Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County CCW case

#936
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the employee was put in the unfortunate immediate situation of either not getting their lawfully permitted license, or paying the bribe He was the chief security officer of the biggest company in the world. He absolutely had many other options. I don't see any Apple apologists here in the comments. Who are you referring to? You do realize that your comment here is exactly what "apologists" means, right?

> He absolutely had many other options. The only legal option I can see is "move out of CA", which probably means get another job. Which, you know, people sometimes do if they feel strongly about the right to carry, but likely wasn't in his set of considered options. > He was the chief security officer of the biggest company in the world. Oh, you're suggesting he use Apple to, uh, "lean on" the sheriff? That seems mu…

> The only legal option I can see is "move out of CA", which probably means get another job.

How could that possibly be the only option?

Sue the sheriff's department is an obvious one, as is contact the FBI.

> Oh, you're suggesting he use Apple to, uh, "lean on" the sheriff? That seems much worse. One might even hope that was not one of his possible options, even as CSO

What?

No of course not.

Off the top of my head:

* Get Apple's lawyers advice (which would not be "pay an illegal bribe")

* FBI

Re: Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County CCW case

#937
post #771

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being an Apple apologist is one thing but being an apologist for corrupt government officials is reprehensible. I side with the underdog in this case.

Both can be bad you know.

Indeed. When Apple become extortionist you go to another handset maker, when the government becomes extortionist you either pay or go to jail. There is a scale of Evil.

Re: Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County CCW case

#938

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO there should be a mandatory waiting period of 24-48 hours for any firearm, but you should be able to start the process over the phone/online etc. Alternatively, require training + passing an exam similar to getting a drivers license for owning anything except a manual long-barrel rifle or shotgun. Semi-auto firearms especially should require licensing/training IMO. Restrictions on magazine size or appearance ("as…

Typically speaking waiting periods are about reducing the risk of someone in a crisis purchasing a firearm and immediately using it for harm, usually either suicide or domestic violence. From a public health perspective there is very little increase in danger for someone buying a second gun, especially of the same type. All of the risk is for their first firearm. IIRC licensing programs for handguns typically have sh…

> Typically speaking waiting periods are about reducing the risk of someone in a crisis purchasing a firearm and immediately using it for harm, usually either suicide or domestic violence. From a public health perspective there is very little increase in danger for someone buying a second gun, especially of the same type. All of the risk is for their first firearm.

This assumes that people don't get rid of firearms or have changes in mental health. There doesn't seem to be much of a justifiable reason to get a gun on short notice, so why not just apply it universally?

> If you're pro-firearm, there is very little difference between "you have to register your gun" and "you have to register to buy a gun".

I'm pro firearm. I'm also vehemently pro education. If you need a license to prove you can safely operate a motor vehicle, you should need a license to purchase a semi-automatic weapon IMO.

I disagree, there is a functional difference between licensing gun owners vs registering guns. One tracks that an owner has gone through training and is authorized to purchase certain types of weapons. It doesn't concretely determine whether they own, or have ever owned a firearm, just like a driver's license does not determine that I own, or have ever owned a motor vehicle (just that I was able to borrow one for the duration of my practical exam). Further, mandatory registration of firearms would include things such as purchase date, serial number, model, location of purchase, etc., which is actually new information that could be potentially used to track and confiscate firearms under certain circumstances. I'd also like to point out that a background check gives more info about the purchase of firearms than a license would. It tells: the date of purchase, the rough type of firearm (handgun vs anything else, at least in WI), and the location of purchase.

Re: Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County CCW case

#939

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He absolutely had many other options. The only legal option I can see is "move out of CA", which probably means get another job. Which, you know, people sometimes do if they feel strongly about the right to carry, but likely wasn't in his set of considered options. > He was the chief security officer of the biggest company in the world. Oh, you're suggesting he use Apple to, uh, "lean on" the sheriff? That seems mu…

> The only legal option I can see is "move out of CA", which probably means get another job. Which, you know, people sometimes do if they feel strongly about the right to carry, but likely wasn't in his set of considered options. You didn't consider "report it to the DA, state police, or FBI" as an option? > Oh, you're suggesting he use Apple to, uh, "lean on" the sheriff? That seems much worse. One might even hope t…

> reporting a bribe solicitation to the appropriate authorities is much less risky than it would be for (say) a random citizen of San Jose.

To say the least! He has the entire weight of the Apple legal department behind him, and that isn't something any sheriff's department would take on lightly.

> I absolutely did not read this in the GP's post. Whether it is what he meant or not, it's an ungenerous take.

I can confirm I didn't mean this! That's a stupid idea.

I don't really understand how randallsquared got that from what I said.

Re: Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County CCW case

#940

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only legal option I can see is "move out of CA", which probably means get another job. Which, you know, people sometimes do if they feel strongly about the right to carry, but likely wasn't in his set of considered options. You didn't consider "report it to the DA, state police, or FBI" as an option? > Oh, you're suggesting he use Apple to, uh, "lean on" the sheriff? That seems much worse. One might even hope t…

I think both of your responses can be cleared up by noting that @nl was responding to, and quoted: > the employee was put in the unfortunate immediate situation of either not getting their lawfully permitted license, or paying the bribe In this context, "options" mean "options to fulfill the CCW licensing goal". Reporting it to the DA, state police, the FBI, or anyone else wouldn't further the CCW licensing goal (tho…

> In this context, "options" mean "options to fulfill the CCW licensing goal".

I think that is artificially closing the options.

Firstly, and most obviously - he could report the illegal activity by the sheriff and wait.

Secondly, he could sue, and ask the court order the licenses be granted immediately if there was a time-critical need.

There's probably other options available for relief too, and I'm pretty sure the Apple legal department could think of them!

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