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Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

singhkays.com

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Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#141

Post by dognotdog »

yardie wrote: post #16

I'm typing this from a 2014 i7-4980HQ 15" MBP. This machine would have been replaced in 2017 but I wasn't impressed with that years model. I had planned to upgrade in 2020 but the announcement of the M1 basically quashed that. I've been on this planet long enough to know when Apple changes course like this the old architect is already obsolete. 68k -> PPC -> x86_64 -> ASi. The PPC G5 got exactly 1 OS upgrade (10.5) b…

I, too, am on 2014 hardware. The real step that would move me to update would be more RAM with the Apple Silicon. The last gen Intel hardware did offer 32GB of RAM, but not much else to justify the cost over a 6 year old precursor.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#142

Post by grishka »

nbzso wrote: post #77

Those of us who are long enough in UI design know what is a result of attention to detail and professional GUI. We have all used Os X not only for UNIX like core (Darwin) but for consistent UX and UI libraries. In some point in time Apple was influencing our work in really meaningful way by setting the standard (remember Apple Human Interface Guidelines pre Yosemite). For me personally Soundtrack Pro is most polished…

It's all mostly redesign for the sake for redesign at this point. Desktop OSes had been feature-complete for quite some time, but they still have to update every year. They have to. Don't you even dare question that. I'm still on Mojave and it does everything I need from an OS. I also absolutely love native Mac apps, which are becoming rarer and rarer. And no, iOS apps that run on macOS aren't native mac apps. The abomination that is the mojave app store? That definitely took some extra talent to break every single UI guideline, but thankfully I only open it once a couple months.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#143

Post by spurgu »

bawolff wrote: post #134
spurgu wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linus on the topic: https://i.redd.it/0c7c4h2t9u061.png

That's not really on this topic. What linus wants to use personally has little bearing on what architectures linux will (eventually) support. Edit To clarify: i mean, linus is saying he wouldnt go to the trouble personally, not that he would reject a patch adding support. Those are two very different things.

How is "Apple may run Linux in their cloud, but their laptops don't ;(" not on topic?

Edit: It's not like Apple has any (commercial) interest in working with the Linux kernel developers to ensure support/compatibility even if the M1 is ARM based.

Edit 2: Don't get me wrong, if Apple announces they will support Linux I'll run out the door and buy one now, as a MacOS user.

Edit 3: And this is a criticism against Apple running Intel x86 chips. Do you really think the M1 future is looking rosy for Linux?

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#144

Post by gameswithgo »

darren_ wrote: post #87
brundolf wrote: post #25

This is fascinating: > Retain and release are tiny actions that almost all software, on all Apple platforms, does all the time. ….. The Apple Silicon system architecture is designed to make these operations as fast as possible. It’s not so much that Intel’s x86 architecture is a bad fit for Apple’s software frameworks, as that Apple Silicon is designed to be a bespoke fit for it …. retaining and releasing NSObjects i…

This quote doesn’t really cover why M1 macs are more efficient with less ram than intel macs? You’ve got a memory budget, it’s likely broadly the same on both platforms, the speed at which your retains/releases happen isn’t going to be the issue. it’s not like intel macs use GC where m1 uses RC. (It explains why iOS does better with less ram than android, but the quote is specifically claiming this as a reason for 8G…

yeah its a bit of a stretch. to the extent that macos apps use garbage collection less than pc apps it would need less ram. but they are kinda hopping around a macos vs android comparison which makes no sense. I think mac enthusiasts trying to imagine why a max of 8 or 16gb is ok. it is ok for most people anyway.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#145

Post by jamiek88 »

eulers_secret wrote: post #110
azangru wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another linux guy here, on the market for a new linux laptop. After reading the article, which linux-compatible laptops, would you say, come the closest to compete with the new generation of Apple products? Long battery life, plenty of power, good screen, good speakers? Is it the inevitable Dell XPS 13 and Thinkpad X1 Carbon, or are there any other darlings among the linux community?

Tiger Lake matches M1 in single-core perf, but gets trounced in multi. AMD has some good options, but I haven't seen a thin&light style AMD based laptop come out yet. Check out System76, their Linux support is unparalleled. The lemur pro is interesting. I don't know if you'll find the specs for the screen/speakers, though. I got the XPS 13, myself, but it still requires 'tweaks' - like running thermald master so your…

Tiger lake at 26w compared to M1 at 10W matches single thread. So not really Apple to apples there.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#146

Post by gameswithgo »

uncomputation wrote: post #122
darren_ wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This quote doesn’t really cover why M1 macs are more efficient with less ram than intel macs? You’ve got a memory budget, it’s likely broadly the same on both platforms, the speed at which your retains/releases happen isn’t going to be the issue. it’s not like intel macs use GC where m1 uses RC. (It explains why iOS does better with less ram than android, but the quote is specifically claiming this as a reason for 8G…

Someone please correct me for the sake of all of us if I’m wrong, but it sounds like Apple is using specialized hardware for “NSObject” retain-and-release operations, which may bypass/reduce the impact on general RAM.

it makes objective c and swift memory management faster but it doesn’t reduce ram usage at all. (maybe a weee bit less bandwidth used)

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#148

Post by grishka »

singhkays wrote: post #3
supernova87a wrote: post #2

You know the thing I worry about next: how are apps going to inevitably bloat in inefficiency and claw back the improvements in CPU?

I don't understand. Don't those two things seem antithetical? Like why would you make your app inefficient at the same time you optimize it for the CPU?

Whenever a new, faster CPU comes out, developers act quick to compensate for that with bloated frameworks to make sure you consistently get the same laggy experience.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#149

Post by ryukafalz »

fassssst wrote: post #12
neilpanchal wrote: post #4

I just got one. I’m blown away by the speed as well. Chrome runs insanely fast! Alas, it’s not developer ready yet. Brew is a mess. Docker doesn’t work. PyCharm is WIP although can use x86 version. I was skeptical of the hype but this little laptop has made me realize how slow everything else is. Unfortunately, while the hardware has accelerated far beyond expectations, the software - specifically MacOS BigSur is a m…

Seems pretty obvious that some future Macs will have touch screens or larger iPads will run MacOS. I’d buy a Surface Studio style iMac in a heartbeat.

I was really hoping they'd announce a $500 touchscreen lapdock for iPhones with a mounting arm that used MagSafe. Turn iPhones into Macs. It'd be the slickest lapdock I can think of.

Not expecting them to, but maybe one day.

Re: Apple Silicon M1: Black Magic Fuckery

#150

Post by grishka »

sesuximo wrote: post #84
supernova87a wrote: post #2

You know the thing I worry about next: how are apps going to inevitably bloat in inefficiency and claw back the improvements in CPU?

s/inefficient/doing more/g

Doing more of what? As a user, I'd rather wait a month for a proper native app than get an electron pile of crap in a week.
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