Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

launchpad.ethereum.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 266 posts

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#211

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

drcode wrote: post #2

TLDR; The transition from Eth1->Eth2 requires the following steps: 1. Network operators (stakers) deposit at least 524,288 ETH in a special contract 2. The early Eth2 blockchain (the "beacon chain") launches Dec 1st 3. The Eth1 blockchain will be merged into Eth2 (details TBD) 4. Other features will be added to make Eth2 fully functional (sharding being the biggest feature) Just a few minutes ago, step 1 has been acc…

I stopped taking Ethereum serious and consider anything that comes from the Gavin Woods / Vitalik Buterin twotter handles as pure garbage (at least from a technological pov). How can anyone take these people serious after they ended up hard forking?

They literally had to go against everything they said and stood for by manually intervening or throw the investments of thousands under the bus. Either you're a decentralized system ruled by consensus or you have top-down hirarchy but you can't claim both. They proofed that a human would intervene any time the proverbial sh!t hits the fan which makes them no better than an expensive but centrally controlled set-up of an RDBMS.

Ethereum is snake-oil and if I see a CV that says blockchain without making crystal clear what they're doing in that space it goes immediately in the recycle bin.

There literally are no valid use-cases (other than buying heroin) in crypto today. And anyone who peddles this stuff always looks like a shill. the tragic is that all this sounds like hyperbole until you realize the same is true for all the BS ideas that got (and still are) peddled since 2017 (wink-wink nudge-nudge $iota the blockchain that isn't one and that manages to invent the only hash-function which isn't collision resistant).

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#212

Post by ilaksh »

Ethereum has always been in my mind a technology that has some of the most potential to improve our world by revolutionizing money, business, and even government.

I hope that enough other people also see that potential as Ethereum 2 rolls out over the next year or two.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#213

Post by rglullis »

jihodl wrote: post #131
rglullis wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> conversion of energy into money. You are treating this is a some function of fundamental physics. It's not. We are only talking about "conversion of energy into money" because that is what the best current implementation of a BFT system is using. It's accidental. You are focused on the "Work" part of "Proof-of-Work", when what we care about for solving consensus in distributed part is the "Proof".

There actually is a fundamental linkage between the computational work of mining (which the Bitcoin network treats as money) and energy. E = k B T ln 2, Landauer's Principle [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer's_principle

Computation for work and energy, yes. No one is arguing against that.

The problem is arguing a correlation between computation and work for price of BTC and/or cost of energy. That is the mistake from OP.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#214

Post by baryphonic »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #211
drcode wrote: post #2

TLDR; The transition from Eth1->Eth2 requires the following steps: 1. Network operators (stakers) deposit at least 524,288 ETH in a special contract 2. The early Eth2 blockchain (the "beacon chain") launches Dec 1st 3. The Eth1 blockchain will be merged into Eth2 (details TBD) 4. Other features will be added to make Eth2 fully functional (sharding being the biggest feature) Just a few minutes ago, step 1 has been acc…

I stopped taking Ethereum serious and consider anything that comes from the Gavin Woods / Vitalik Buterin twotter handles as pure garbage (at least from a technological pov). How can anyone take these people serious after they ended up hard forking? They literally had to go against everything they said and stood for by manually intervening or throw the investments of thousands under the bus. Either you're a decentral…

> There literally are no valid use-cases (other than buying heroin) in crypto today.

Even as a hyperbole, this seems odd. The various decentralized name resolution blockchains seem to be a valid use case, for instance. Sure, it's still possible for project politics to cause issues (like the hard fork), it's just significantly costlier.

Crypto has been overhyped, but I think it's a mistake to say that there are "literally no valid use-cases," especially in a world where FAANGs seem to want to exert ever-greater control over what we can do with their systems. Crypto has a horrible UX at the moment ("first, you need to set up your wallet...") and it has an underdeveloped infrastructure, resulting in awkward centralized single points of failure (e.g. crypto exchanges). On top of that, no one has developed a "killer app" that could appeal to the mainstream computer user. As a consequence, the prices of crypto vary wildly, since the "real economy" seems to be dwarfed by simple speculation. The whole space right now is filled with criminals and ideologues and scalawags. (I imagine most of the ICO fraudsters have run out of coin.)

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#216

Post by xiphias2 »

woahAcademia wrote: post #108

I stopped trusting ethereum after EIP669. Ethereum used to have a soft cap of 100M coins. They removed the cap. Ethereum is no Bitcoin. It's more akin to dogecoin/fiat with its infinite money. Hope POS works so Bitcoin can adopt it.

I stopped trusting Ethereum in 2017 at the Parity multisig bug: https://blog.comae.io/the-280m-ethereums-bug-f28e5de43513

Even in the bug fix there wasn't any unit testing involved. I'm using multisig to store all my Bitcoins, so it scared me extremely. With Bitcoin I read through the multisig code (stack machine) before putting money onto the blockchain. With Ethereum the code changes so fast, that with all the hard forks I wouldn't be able to verify the code. ,,Don't trust, verify'' doesn't work there.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#217

Post by diang »

rglullis wrote: post #182
diang wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could take a look at e.g, anything ... but when you add a caveat of participation, scaling to infinity is inherently possible. If we all chose to do something, we could all do it. The problem comes with attracting such participation, which isn't warranted without that very participation having already been established. Carts and horses and such.

First you said it was a "if they come we will build it" problem, I just showed you one example that demonstrates that your claim is false. Also, I said that there are many things yet in the way to facilitate adoption, no need to move the goal-posts.

You don't seem to understand what my claim is, and your example was just speculation that doesn't reflect reality.

I never said there were goal-posts... if anything I said they couldn't exist, and even if you could score, you'd get points in the wrong game.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#219

Post by pfraze »

pkulak wrote: post #196
nwah1 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a better way to say it is that it moves from a trustless system to a system that trusts based on some criteria. That criteria is usually how many coins one has. Since the original bitcoin concept was solving the byzantine generals problem, the entire point of all the cryptographic work was to be trustless. If you are cool with trust, you can have reversibility, lost password retrieval, anti-money laundering c…

I guess I don't understand how proof of stake uses trust while proof of work doesn't. They seem very similar to me. I could argue that with Bitcoin you have to trust all of these large pools that are constantly flirting with 50% of the hashing power.

This is my best understanding, I could be wrong.

With PoW, we trust that the mining algorithm is going to take X amount of time given Y amount of computation. That arguably removes trust from people and puts it in the properties of tech.

PoS argues that PoW is just a proxy indicator of stake, where the stake is computing resources that are committed to mining. With PoS, rather than reifying your resources into CPUs that churn wastefully, we reify the resources into in-ledger coins which are held in escrow. Block-writers are selected randomly from a pool of miners which are weighted by the amount of stake in escrow. If the miner violates the protocol, they lose their escrowed stake.

So PoS moves from "trust in algorithm runtime on modern hardware" to "trust in economic game theory," I figure.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#220

Post by pfraze »

lawn wrote: post #165
woahAcademia wrote: post #108

I stopped trusting ethereum after EIP669. Ethereum used to have a soft cap of 100M coins. They removed the cap. Ethereum is no Bitcoin. It's more akin to dogecoin/fiat with its infinite money. Hope POS works so Bitcoin can adopt it.

I stopped supporting Ethereum when they abandoned code is law, and arbitrarily rewrote the rules to protect against the DAO hack. It's fine to protect against theft, but it's not fine when it's only enforced arbitrarily and only when the core developers themselves are affected. This is the whole premise behind the irreversibility of cryptocurrencies, that the only fair thing is to never do it, and when you abandon th…

They didn't abandon "code is law." They legislated code to deal with a specific problem that they had a state interest to solve.

Blockchains do introduce code as law, but if the code can change then they also introduce legislatures (the miners). Those legislatures have voting power equivalent to their % of mining control. The point isn't to make transactions irreversible; the point is to create a system of distributed control in which a decision to revert a transaction requires consensus among the miner/legislators.

Post reply on HN