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Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

launchpad.ethereum.org

121–130 of 266 posts

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#121
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean no more mining and waste of electricity ?

Just to riff on this idea, despite inevitable pushback: Bitcoin's proof-of-work is basically a conversion of energy directly into money. This pushes competition towards cheaper and cheaper sources of energy. First it's finding jurisdictions that subsidize it, then it's creating your own cheaper energy sources. Proof-of-work incentivizes cheap & renewable energy investment. The penultimate phase is custom off-grid min…

>The endgame is that all energy companies will primarily be Bitcoin mining companies, feeding their excess renewable energy into the grid to power homes, etc.

Wow. This is beyond delusional.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#123

Blockchains have a few problems that I think make them unsuitable for internet money, I know more about Bitcoin but I think this applies to Ethereum also: - Early adapter become extremely rich (Developers) - Transaction costs O(n) network complexity - Every operation in the network result in no more than O(polylog(n)) - Energy Issues (Proof of Work) - Speculative markets making the coins not usefull for day to day sh…

ok

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#125

Blockchains have a few problems that I think make them unsuitable for internet money, I know more about Bitcoin but I think this applies to Ethereum also: - Early adapter become extremely rich (Developers) - Transaction costs O(n) network complexity - Every operation in the network result in no more than O(polylog(n)) - Energy Issues (Proof of Work) - Speculative markets making the coins not usefull for day to day sh…

Hard to know which piece of misinformation to respond to.

If you skip all the subjective stuff and whether "works for shopping" is the goal.. both of your big-O comments have counter examples (check out Coda for 1) as does your energy comment (Eth2 is an effort to switch to Proof of Stake, amongst other upgrades).

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#126

Blockchains have a few problems that I think make them unsuitable for internet money, I know more about Bitcoin but I think this applies to Ethereum also: - Early adapter become extremely rich (Developers) - Transaction costs O(n) network complexity - Every operation in the network result in no more than O(polylog(n)) - Energy Issues (Proof of Work) - Speculative markets making the coins not usefull for day to day sh…

Hard to know which piece of misinformation to respond to. If you skip all the subjective stuff and whether "works for shopping" is the goal.. both of your big-O comments have counter examples (check out Coda for 1) as does your energy comment (Eth2 is an effort to switch to Proof of Stake, amongst other upgrades).

> both of your big-O comments have counter examples (check out Coda for 1)

That's the typical blockchain reply, suggest yet another ICO out of the ocean of ICOs out there.

> as does your energy comment (Eth2 is an effort to switch to Proof of Stake, amongst other upgrades)

I don't know muuch about Eth2 so I will give you that one.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean no more mining and waste of electricity ?

Funny nobody complains about the energy consumed by actual banks and other services Bitcoin would replace, which is much higher. In those circumstances they can understand it's not a waste at all, but a cost of providing a valuable service. I don't think POS is an adequate replacement. POW was an intentional design choice because of the highly competitive environment that it creates.

Do you have some modelling, or any credible reference to back up your assertion that the energy used by banks would be higher than a Bitcoin blockchain?

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#129
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Validators will need to run a computer with reasonably modern specs (at least 1TB SSD, 8-16GB RAM, multiple cores) in order to collect fees and not have their funds slashed. IIRC you need to have at least 70% uptime to not lose any funds, and to be a good investment you need 99%+ uptime. If you consider that modern systems with the required specs can run on 10W, you should get ~90kWh in a year. Transaction-speed wise…

Competing with Bitcoin's TPS in the single digits, high-hundreds/low thousands is a big leap... but still not enough to replace the higher order global currencies. In order to gain the necessary L2 support, they'll have to establish dominance relative to bitcoin with an equally lacking TPS. Seems like a "If they come, we will build it" problem.

>>In order to gain the necessary L2 support, they'll have to establish dominance relative to bitcoin with an equally lacking TPS.

In terms of utilization, Ethereum already has, exceeding Bitcoin in transactions per day:

https://etherscan.io/chart/tx

And doing so while the average complexity of transactions, which is measured by the number of gas units a transaction consumes, has increased:

https://etherscan.io/chart/gasused

It has also overtaken Bitcoin in the economic demand for its blockspace, with Ethereum miners earning more in fees than Bitcoin miners:

https://coinmetrics.io/charts/#assets=btc,eth_log=false_left...

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#130

Blockchains have a few problems that I think make them unsuitable for internet money, I know more about Bitcoin but I think this applies to Ethereum also: - Early adapter become extremely rich (Developers) - Transaction costs O(n) network complexity - Every operation in the network result in no more than O(polylog(n)) - Energy Issues (Proof of Work) - Speculative markets making the coins not usefull for day to day sh…

Most of these issues are non technical. Any technology that does anything with money will attract scammers, criminals, charlatans, etc. like a corpse attracts flies. That's not a fundamental problem with the underlying technology but actually a robustness test for it.

The banking system fails this test regularly BTW. It too attracts the same variety of people and recent history is littered with people testing the limits of the system and causing minor and major financial incidents as a side effect. Our legal system actively protects these shady types too. You could say that blockchains are designed to function despite the presence of such people. So, their presence is a given but not necessarily a bug.

Now specifically Ethereum 2 is proof of stake; not proof of work. So it has limited energy issues associated with v1 and Bitcoin. This also kills the mining use case and shifts power to those holding stake.

Transaction complexity and throughput remain problematic compared to non block chain based systems but are probably good enough for most use cases and of course vastly better than v1, which I would argue was never really suitable for any serious use cases because of its slow transactions and uncertain outcomes when they spanned minutes to hours instead of seconds (which also stops any kind of interactive payment scenario dead in its tracks). Using side chains for micro transactions, payment channels, etc. is a common/practical workaround and probably also desirable from a privacy point of view.

Pseudo decentralization is policy choice. Different blockchains make different trade-offs here. There's inherent friction between purists/utopioans on one hand and people to do real stuff on the other hand. Pure decentralization is mostly not very practical in a lot of domains and technically overkill for common requirements. In the case of a financial system, you in any case need the buy-in of legal entities and governments. There's an implied level of central control. That's why ripple and stellar are popular with fintechs. Good enough as a shared ledger and for implementing e.g. remittance networks and complex financial products. Enabling anarchists is not a design goal for them.

In the end, a blockchain is just a tamper proof block chain. You use it in a legal system that may or may not allow you to use it and that may or may not provide you some legal protections against ripped off. Facebook found that out the hard way when they tried to compete with central banks last year and then realized that that would put them in the cross hairs of financial authorities, which is when they backtracked their position doing something weaker at some point later (probably never at this point). Stepping outside the common legal frameworks is only easy if you are not really a part of it to begin with.

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