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Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

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Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#161

Post by wdr1 »

troupe wrote: post #47

Last time I looked closely at infant mortality in the US, it looked like the US was doing horribly. However, after talking with some doctors at a neonatal ICU I found out that in the US, we will often identify an unborn child that is in trouble and get it out of the mother in an attempt to save it. Since these types of cases are considered a birth, they count against the mortality rate whereas in some other countries…

I wish they would report on life expectancy from 1 year at birth to eliminate the variance in what each country considers a live birth.

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#162

Post by fakedang »

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #131
danans wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would rather be uninsured and take my chances So you won't seek medical treatment at a hospital if you get injured or become severely ill? Or do you plan to go to the hospital and pay out of pocket? Or, like some other voluntarily uninsured people, will you ask for medical treatment and then just not pay? > than work a low waged job and pay for Obamacare. Why would a "low waged" job be a requirement, unless that'…

Well seeing as a sizable majority of human history has gotten by without health insurance for...I don't know, 10k years plus, as I've said, I'll take my chances. As for paying out of pocket, there are plenty of local urgent care centers where their business model is basically only cash. They do things from popping cysts, removing hangnails, to stitches. Lots of stuff that if you went to a hospital, would cost triple…

For a long part of the sizeable majority of human history, the average lifespan varied from 25 years to 30 years tops.

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#163

Post by gok »

lostlogin wrote: post #147
toomanybeersies wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another statistic that's difficult to compare is homelessness. On first glance, New Zealand (0.94%) and Australia (0.48%) top the OECD for rate of homelessness, as they include people living in temporary accomodation (sleeping on a couch, motels, etc.) or cars as homeless. Whereas Japan (with the 0.00%) only counts people sleeping rough). Comparing unemployment rates has similar issues. Comparing these kinds of rates…

Comparing stats is fraught. There was a really good thread here on HN about how the US calculates its unemployment rate, it is vastly different to how I naively imagined it was calculated. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24836422

Note that the current calculation is also what's used almost everywhere else in the developed world; the US figure was changed to be more comparable to other countries in the 2000s.

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#164

Post by fakedang »

rayiner wrote: post #159

It’s interesting to break this down by state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ... . As a benchmark, life expectancy in Germany is about 81 years, while Sweden is a bit over 82. In Minnesota, it’s 80.9, which isn’t far off. New York is over 81, Massachusetts is 80.5. Even less wealthy states like Arizona, North Dakota, and Utah are at 79.9. It’s also interesting to break this down by ethnic…

I wouldn't call Arizona, ND and Utah less wealthy. Sure they may not have NY/SF style wealth, but their purchasing power still exists.

I would use the South or Rust Belt as a better reference.

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#165

Post by alexlikeits1999 »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #85

If you dig into the statistics, the reason is not what most people assume. The US has anomalously high death rates due to unintentional injury (accidents) in the young adult age groups, which skews the average for the overall population. If young people died in accidents at similar rates to the rest of the world, the average life expectancy would look quite good. This is the 3rd most common cause of death in the US,…

Sorry, car accidents won't cut it. Here are the life tables: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_03.pdf which link to this spreadsheet: https://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/Health_Statistics/NCHS/Publications/...

Here are traffic deaths by age group: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6806a8.htm. Let's pad those numbers up by a significant amount and assign 20 per 100,000 from birth, and remove those deaths from the life tables (ie let's say noone dies from traffic accidents in the USA). That still only lifts life expectancy by 1 year (from 78.6 to 79.6)

You can keep adding other parts of accidental deaths but: 1) they don't fit the story of USA dying more from driving 2) the leftovers are already below the accidental death rate from countries with much higher life expectancy 3) a big chunk of the rest is accidental falls which predominantly affects very old people so doesn't have a big impact on life expectancy

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#166

Post by meowster »

reidjs wrote: post #3

For those short on time: “smoking, obesity, homicides, opioid overdoses, suicides, road accidents, and infant deaths. In addition to this, deeper poverty and less access to healthcare mean Americans at lower incomes die at a younger age than poor people in other rich countries.” Still a good article

I wonder what someone's life expectancy would be without the personally-avoidable things such as smoking, obesity, overdoses, and suicides.

Homicides, road accidents, and infant deaths are harder to control as an individual.

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#167

Post by lostlogin »

souprock wrote: post #157
ZDurmPhoto wrote: post #67

Just like @TuringNYC,I spent the early part of my life in the lower half of socio-economic ladder. With a bit of luck (and yes, work), I extracted myself from this group. I'm not rich, but I have zero debt. I own a house, multiple vehicles, and an 4 season expedition camper - free and clear. I have a rewarding and unusual career. By contrast, the entirety of my close and extended family lives in poverty. Bankruptcy,…

I don't agree that "access to healthcare, decent work, and basic housing" would have changed the outcome of a "lethal encounter with police after speeding". Doing that in a Bugatti Veyron is still lethal.

It’s not hard to imagine why someone might take a risk and run from the police if they have outstanding warrants, unpaid fines etc. The level of stress that comes from living like that has all sorts of negatives that exacerbate the problems. Having a safety net in terms of safety, health and shelter doesn’t seem too much to ask in my view.

I’m pretty sure ZDurmphoto has a good idea of their brothers situation.

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#168

Post by pbadg3r »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #112
TuringNYC wrote: post #5

There really are two Americas - wealthy america and the rest of america. I'll bet if you split America into two sets of counties, the graph would be much different -- one would be a super-outlier and the other a super-laggard. I know this personally, as I've spent 21yrs of my life in one half, and another 20 in the other half. I've also lived overseas for several years, and they also have stratas, but much less prono…

But even that isn't even true. The US system doesn't even benefit the wealthy. For profit health care means a lot of over-treatment which causes several problems in US health care which kills people: - Something like 2x as much surgery done in the US than in other countries, because it is profitable, not because it is needed. So perfectly health people are cut open, because they got a good insurance which can pay for…

If you're wealthy maybe you're also savvy enough to deal with the system. When a few second opinions with doctor friends are only a phone call away it's not hard to imagine better outcomes better. I recall an article on HN where a dev quit his job to do cancer research when he was diagnosed, and spent the next year getting to top 1% level in cancer analysis for his subtype. That's disposable income in action.

Fatal opioid use is less common with wealthy folks, and great diet + exercise + friends (easier if you're rich) are all good prevention mechanisms against antibiotic resistant bacteria.

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#169

Post by kube-system »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #158
kube-system wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s illegal to turn anyone down in the ER for their ability to pay (at most hospitals). If you show up with an emergency, you will get treated, and the bill comes afterwards. Now, you’re definitely not going to get a luxury treatment, but they will patch you up so you’re not dying. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_... It isn’t the way we should want this to work, but it is certainly someth…

The ER isn't going to offer you cancer treatment, pay for costly prescriptions or provide the medical care, routine and otherwise, that is often required to live a long life.

Yeah, anything that requires long term treatment would be a problem, because EMTALA is only good until you get stabilized enough to discharge, and when you come back, it’s scheduled care and not an emergency.

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#170

Post by triceratops »

rayiner wrote: post #148
Blahah wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really isn't the same though. In most developed countries you don't have to worry about turning up to a hospital, for pregnancy or any reason. When a pregnant woman turns up to hospital in the UK (for example) she is absolutely not stressed about the potential cost of the care. If something goes wrong, she gets world class care at no cost to her. If some other medical problem is discovered while she's there, it wi…

Health care is not free at the point of use “in most developed countries.” The UK NHS is an exception. Also, you’re comparing apples and oranges a bit. In the US, an epidural is standard, which requires the expensive services of an anesthesiologist. Meanwhile, the UK NHS is famous for steering women away from epidurals. In the US, getting a private room after giving birth is standard, while in the NHS you’ll be in a…

> The UK NHS is an exception.

Also, Canada.

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