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Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

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Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#141

Post by kube-system »

danans wrote: post #123
MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather be uninsured and take my chances than work a low waged job and pay for Obamacare. $500/month for a single person, highest deductible plan is ludicrous. Thats fucking 80-90% rent for many people where I live...if not 100%+.

> I would rather be uninsured and take my chances So you won't seek medical treatment at a hospital if you get injured or become severely ill? Or do you plan to go to the hospital and pay out of pocket? Or, like some other voluntarily uninsured people, will you ask for medical treatment and then just not pay? > than work a low waged job and pay for Obamacare. Why would a "low waged" job be a requirement, unless that'…

I would absolutely do the same if I worked a low wage job. Despite our messed up insurance situation, US laws regarding access to emergency care and bankruptcy are very progressive.

Someone making $15/hr is likely does not have any assets that would be surrendered in chapter 7 bankruptcy. A lot of people would gladly crater their credit score for a few years to delete an $80,000 bill. Plenty of people crater their credit scores over dumber stuff.

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#142

Post by laurencerowe »

troupe wrote: post #47

Last time I looked closely at infant mortality in the US, it looked like the US was doing horribly. However, after talking with some doctors at a neonatal ICU I found out that in the US, we will often identify an unborn child that is in trouble and get it out of the mother in an attempt to save it. Since these types of cases are considered a birth, they count against the mortality rate whereas in some other countries…

Similar gaps between the US and comparable countries are apparent at age 40 too: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-lif...

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#143

Post by war1025 »

karmasimida wrote: post #117

US residents have a huge obesity problem, and very little has been done to improve the situation

In fact we've even started celebrating it. The "Body positive" movement [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_positivity

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#144

Post by irrational »

pavlov wrote: post #127
rayiner wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: universal healthcare. Latinos in the US have the highest rates of lacking health insurance (20% versus 5% for non-Hispanic whites). But they have the second highest life expectancy (81.8 years—longer than people in Denmark). And they have the lowest maternal mortality rates: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2019/p0905-racial-ethnic-... > If you look at health care for the poor in the US, it is generally geared…

According to the link, the maternal mortality rate for Hispanics in US is 11.5, which is almost 4x higher than in Finland. For non-hispanic black women, the death rate is a staggering 40.8 — that's over 13x higher than Finland! Large parts of America are a third world country.

Could this really be a difference in fertility rate? The fertility rate in Finland is 1.46 children per women. The fertility rate of hispanics in the USA is 3.08, more than double that of Finland. The third (or more) child born to a woman is not equal in maternal mortality rate as the first child. The rate goes up with each child born. I don't know if we would expect it to go up to 4x higher, but certainly 3x higher wouldn't be unreasonable.

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#145

Post by in_cahoots »

Blahah wrote: post #126
rayiner wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: universal healthcare. Latinos in the US have the highest rates of lacking health insurance (20% versus 5% for non-Hispanic whites). But they have the second highest life expectancy (81.8 years—longer than people in Denmark). And they have the lowest maternal mortality rates: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2019/p0905-racial-ethnic-... > If you look at health care for the poor in the US, it is generally geared…

IIRC both higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality are considered likely to be due to community support systems being much better and more pervasive in Latinx communities in the USA. Home births among Latinx are much safer than among most other subpopulations - reduced medicalisation and strong preservation of cultural knowledge about birth are major factors.

Any chance you have a citation or article for this? I’m not trying to critique here, it’s just that this hits close to home as a black woman. I see that modern midwifery is largely restricted to affluent, white, women, while the art of midwifery has largely been lost in the black community. It’s a cultural tragedy that the knowledge was lost.

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#146

Post by kube-system »

im3w1l wrote: post #130
danans wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would rather be uninsured and take my chances So you won't seek medical treatment at a hospital if you get injured or become severely ill? Or do you plan to go to the hospital and pay out of pocket? Or, like some other voluntarily uninsured people, will you ask for medical treatment and then just not pay? > than work a low waged job and pay for Obamacare. Why would a "low waged" job be a requirement, unless that'…

I think he is saying that for many people it's just too much money. And that if they would be denied care, then so be it. This is where it gets uncomfortable, isn't it? That their lives are so miserable, that they would gladly trade away years and years of expected lifespan for higher quality of life.

It’s illegal to turn anyone down in the ER for their ability to pay (at most hospitals). If you show up with an emergency, you will get treated, and the bill comes afterwards. Now, you’re definitely not going to get a luxury treatment, but they will patch you up so you’re not dying.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_...

It isn’t the way we should want this to work, but it is certainly something that people actually do.

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#147

Post by lostlogin »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #122
troupe wrote: post #47

Last time I looked closely at infant mortality in the US, it looked like the US was doing horribly. However, after talking with some doctors at a neonatal ICU I found out that in the US, we will often identify an unborn child that is in trouble and get it out of the mother in an attempt to save it. Since these types of cases are considered a birth, they count against the mortality rate whereas in some other countries…

Another statistic that's difficult to compare is homelessness. On first glance, New Zealand (0.94%) and Australia (0.48%) top the OECD for rate of homelessness, as they include people living in temporary accomodation (sleeping on a couch, motels, etc.) or cars as homeless. Whereas Japan (with the 0.00%) only counts people sleeping rough). Comparing unemployment rates has similar issues. Comparing these kinds of rates…

Comparing stats is fraught. There was a really good thread here on HN about how the US calculates its unemployment rate, it is vastly different to how I naively imagined it was calculated.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24836422

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#148

Post by rayiner »

Blahah wrote: post #128
gleb wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that US does have universal healthcare for pregnant women. Most pregnancies and births in United States are covered by Medicaid. And Medicaid pays well for that.

It really isn't the same though. In most developed countries you don't have to worry about turning up to a hospital, for pregnancy or any reason. When a pregnant woman turns up to hospital in the UK (for example) she is absolutely not stressed about the potential cost of the care. If something goes wrong, she gets world class care at no cost to her. If some other medical problem is discovered while she's there, it wi…

Health care is not free at the point of use “in most developed countries.” The UK NHS is an exception. Also, you’re comparing apples and oranges a bit. In the US, an epidural is standard, which requires the expensive services of an anesthesiologist. Meanwhile, the UK NHS is famous for steering women away from epidurals. In the US, getting a private room after giving birth is standard, while in the NHS you’ll be in a maternity ward.

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#149

Post by thatfrenchguy »

samatman wrote: post #83
School-Cotton wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, hence the quip about "rich people in it". A more serious way of putting it might be that the US is in raw dollar terms one of the richest countries in the world (certainly by far the richest large one), yet in many ways (infrastructure, quality of administration, political culture, etc.) it feels more similar to a middle-income one.

Yes but that quip doesn't work when we're comparing the median. The US does have an absolutely nosebleed wealthy 0.1%, yes, but if you split the population exactly in half, and pick the bloke in the middle, he has really rather a lot of assets, relative to most anywhere else. "The richest poor country in the world" might be closer to it. As the rest of the threads under this post will reveal, we mostly agree that som…

But at middle income in the US you don’t get the healthcare or vacations that a lower 25% gets in any Western European country. It’s hard enough when you’re top 10%.

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#150

Post by 93po »

danans wrote: post #123
MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather be uninsured and take my chances than work a low waged job and pay for Obamacare. $500/month for a single person, highest deductible plan is ludicrous. Thats fucking 80-90% rent for many people where I live...if not 100%+.

> I would rather be uninsured and take my chances So you won't seek medical treatment at a hospital if you get injured or become severely ill? Or do you plan to go to the hospital and pay out of pocket? Or, like some other voluntarily uninsured people, will you ask for medical treatment and then just not pay? > than work a low waged job and pay for Obamacare. Why would a "low waged" job be a requirement, unless that'…

I expect any reason for me to go to a hospital to basically cost me $30k+ without insurance. My plan is to go to the hospital and then declare bankruptcy and hope I don't need to go to the hospital again for another 7 years. I deliberately make lifestyle changes to avoid hospitalization. I don't ride bicycles or motorcycles. I don't play sports. I don't do manual labor or work with saws. I don't drive at night (not sure if this is any real difference but it makes me feel safer).

This is the life I have in capitalist America. I'm afraid to do basic things like ride a bicycle in fear of it financially crippling me to the point that I'm incapable of paying rent and becoming homeless

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