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Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

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Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#131

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

danans wrote: post #123
MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather be uninsured and take my chances than work a low waged job and pay for Obamacare. $500/month for a single person, highest deductible plan is ludicrous. Thats fucking 80-90% rent for many people where I live...if not 100%+.

> I would rather be uninsured and take my chances So you won't seek medical treatment at a hospital if you get injured or become severely ill? Or do you plan to go to the hospital and pay out of pocket? Or, like some other voluntarily uninsured people, will you ask for medical treatment and then just not pay? > than work a low waged job and pay for Obamacare. Why would a "low waged" job be a requirement, unless that'…

Well seeing as a sizable majority of human history has gotten by without health insurance for...I don't know, 10k years plus, as I've said, I'll take my chances. As for paying out of pocket, there are plenty of local urgent care centers where their business model is basically only cash. They do things from popping cysts, removing hangnails, to stitches. Lots of stuff that if you went to a hospital, would cost triple or more simply because of insurance.

I'm saying low waged as in I make $14/hr or less. I mean it boggles my mind that you'd even say that because there frankly, is a large portion of the US who don't make Silicon Valley salaries.

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#132

Post by zusoomro »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #112
TuringNYC wrote: post #5

There really are two Americas - wealthy america and the rest of america. I'll bet if you split America into two sets of counties, the graph would be much different -- one would be a super-outlier and the other a super-laggard. I know this personally, as I've spent 21yrs of my life in one half, and another 20 in the other half. I've also lived overseas for several years, and they also have stratas, but much less prono…

But even that isn't even true. The US system doesn't even benefit the wealthy. For profit health care means a lot of over-treatment which causes several problems in US health care which kills people: - Something like 2x as much surgery done in the US than in other countries, because it is profitable, not because it is needed. So perfectly health people are cut open, because they got a good insurance which can pay for…

Do you have any citations / resources that can be used to read more about your perspective here?

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#133

Post by dragonsky »

Thorentis wrote: post #108
bryan11 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could segment them in three sets: well insured, people with catastrophic health plans, and uninsured. Many employers are switching to high deductible health plans and that deductible may be thousands of dollars, i.e. catastrophic plans. When going to a doctor for a simple diagnosis or bloodwork can easily cost $400 to $1000, many put off doctor visits unless it's an emergency. It can easily become a choice betwee…

$400 for just a bloodtest at a GP? That's insane. All free in Australia, from the initial visit, to the blood taking, to the follow up.

Maybe a more accurate description of Australia is that it can be free, but you may have to wait for a dr appointment. Or you can go to one of the non bulk-billing doctors and a nice lounge to sit on whilst you wait.

Generally necessary pathology/radiology or routine blood tests are covered by medicare which is paid for by a levy of about 1% on income.

Likewise pharmaceuticals are generally fairly low cost (there are exceptions), being subsidised by the government and for low income or people with ongoing requirements can be free.

Private health insurance is available and encouraged by a decrease in your medicare levy, but a lot of people are finding that it doesn't provide any financial benefit and as we have a very good public health system, does not provide any better health outcome.

Health Insurance is not a major concern in Australia. It certainly is not tied to an employer and doesn't rate on the list of things to worry about when getting a job.

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#134

Post by dragonsky »

perardi wrote: post #30

Wow, the difference between the US and Canada is a surprise, in particular the opioid overdoses and road accidents. I am a US->Canada transplant, and the cultural and economic differences here just don’t seem that stark. Yes, there is universal health care, obviously…but there is definitely not an abundance of easily available mental health care here, especially outside the major metro areas. And the health care in t…

Is the need for Mental Health care in Canada reduced due to a more relaxed, less frantic lifestyle?

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#135

Post by ars »

Blahah wrote: post #128
gleb wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that US does have universal healthcare for pregnant women. Most pregnancies and births in United States are covered by Medicaid. And Medicaid pays well for that.

It really isn't the same though. In most developed countries you don't have to worry about turning up to a hospital, for pregnancy or any reason. When a pregnant woman turns up to hospital in the UK (for example) she is absolutely not stressed about the potential cost of the care. If something goes wrong, she gets world class care at no cost to her. If some other medical problem is discovered while she's there, it wi…

> Not so in the US

Yes so in the US. That's literally what the person you replied to just told you: For pregnant women, children, and poor people, it's all fully covered.

It's really only the middle class that has it hard (i.e. expensive).

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#136

Post by kube-system »

TuringNYC wrote: post #88
bryan11 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could segment them in three sets: well insured, people with catastrophic health plans, and uninsured. Many employers are switching to high deductible health plans and that deductible may be thousands of dollars, i.e. catastrophic plans. When going to a doctor for a simple diagnosis or bloodwork can easily cost $400 to $1000, many put off doctor visits unless it's an emergency. It can easily become a choice betwee…

That's a great explanation. It also shows how short-sighted such plans us at a national macro level -- because an ounce of prevention can prevent hundreds of thousands in future future bills. A perfect example is vitamin deficiency and the very serious effects such deficiencies can have, and how inexpensive the preventative care is.

It is getting better. The ACA mandates coverage for some preventative care.

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#137

Post by dragonsky »

x87678r wrote: post #79

Page missed #hrs worked, holidays/vacation days. Actually just the general stress that you have to work hard your whole life just to get-to/stay in middle class. Maybe that is related to the inequality part.

So what is the average number of days holiday for an American full-time worker? Is anybody aware of any studies that compare hours worked per year against life expectancy?

Is this valid: https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/long-working-hours-shor...

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#138

Post by Blahah »

ars wrote: post #135
Blahah wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really isn't the same though. In most developed countries you don't have to worry about turning up to a hospital, for pregnancy or any reason. When a pregnant woman turns up to hospital in the UK (for example) she is absolutely not stressed about the potential cost of the care. If something goes wrong, she gets world class care at no cost to her. If some other medical problem is discovered while she's there, it wi…

> Not so in the US Yes so in the US. That's literally what the person you replied to just told you: For pregnant women, children, and poor people, it's all fully covered. It's really only the middle class that has it hard (i.e. expensive).

No, it isn't literally what they told me. In many other countries, there is no possibility of being charged for any medical treatment you require when you visit hospital to give birth. It is free as in you don't need to have any money or any way to pay and you can be diagnosed and treated for any medical condition that might become relevant while you're there giving birth, and give birth and have any related issues handled, and you never have to pay anything at all. In the US, that is just not true [1].

1: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/01/how-much-...

Re: Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

#139

Post by rayiner »

pavlov wrote: post #127
rayiner wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: universal healthcare. Latinos in the US have the highest rates of lacking health insurance (20% versus 5% for non-Hispanic whites). But they have the second highest life expectancy (81.8 years—longer than people in Denmark). And they have the lowest maternal mortality rates: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2019/p0905-racial-ethnic-... > If you look at health care for the poor in the US, it is generally geared…

According to the link, the maternal mortality rate for Hispanics in US is 11.5, which is almost 4x higher than in Finland. For non-hispanic black women, the death rate is a staggering 40.8 — that's over 13x higher than Finland! Large parts of America are a third world country.

The maternal mortality rate in the US is about 50% higher than in the UK for white mothers (8 versus 12), and the same for Black mothers (about 40): https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-47115305.

Asians, meanwhile, in the US have a maternal mortality rate of about 13, which would be 4x higher than Finland, but a life expectancy of over 86 years—several years longer than Japan or Korea, and 4 years longer than Finland. Indeed, the life expectancy of Hispanics in America is about the same as people in Finland.

It would be odd to see such disparities between maternal mortality on one hand and life expectancy on the other. Likewise it would be odd for Finland to be so much better than the UK. So I suspect there is more to the story than “large parts of America are a third world country.”

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