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Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

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Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#341

Post by sangnoir »

pvg wrote: post #250
oarsinsync wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple have a history of denying anything until it's ready, and then they flip the script. While the article is clearly biased, it would be foolish to believe that Apple is a company that doesn't change course, going as far as total U-turns on public statements, as long as it's in their interests to do so. > They are what makes the mac popular with developers Developers believe that they're Apple's priority when it co…

What are some relevant, analogous examples from this history?

Steve Jobs incredulously derided both Android phablets ("no one wants these Hummer phones"[1]) and 7"/8" Android tablets ("They are so small, you'll have to file down your fingers to use them"[1]). All the while, Apple was working on both bigger iPhones and smaller iPads. When Apple's version of products were released, those niches weren't terrible, all of a sudden.

1. I'm paraphrasing

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#342

Post by kilburn »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #335
kilburn wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there somewhere I can find some evidence that it isn't a marginal improvement? While your story about raw computing performance holds, there are two reasons why apple's M1 release is significant (i.e.: not marginal): 1. This is the first time in decades that we see a serious non-x86 competitor for general purpose consumer-level computing. This is significant in and of itself. 2. Power consumption. These things s…

> This is the first time in decades that we see a serious non-x86 competitor for general purpose consumer-level computing. This is significant in and of itself. I feel like this would be a lot more significant if you could buy the chip on its own. When you can only buy it as part of a Mac, you're really not buying the chip, you're buying a Mac with all that entails. Then who makes the chip in your Mac doesn't really…

> I feel like this would be a lot more significant if you could buy the chip on its own.

Oh, totally. I'm not buying into apple (again) anytime soon, so the only bad thing about M1's for me is that I just won't have them, no matter how good they are.

> But that's much the same issue where you're comparing it to Zen 2 when Zen 3 is expected to be 20% faster at the same power, and close a lot of that gap.

I expect next-gen AMD laptop processors to close the gap either in performance or in power consumption, but not both. Also, power consumption of a laptop is very much a whole-package deal, and Apple really shines here.

To be clear, I dislike apple for who they are and where are they leading the personal computing industry, so I won't buy from them. Nonetheless, I have to acknowledge that they make some damn fine machines.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#343

Post by bfgoodrich »

Tade0 wrote: post #337
bfgoodrich wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A disclaimer on your battery life: that is doing literally nothing with the 2080. Effectively turning it off and carrying it around as an extra cost/weight for nothing. Because the moment you use that 2080, your battery life will be South of 3 hours with a 100% charge and a factory new battery. You'll also have a jet engine fan and a leg burning device. Which is the point.

I have a whole day on battery for normal usage, and competent gaming performance when I plug it in. The M1 offers only one of these things.

A 4lb laptop that needs to be a desktop to use its primary selling point isn't an attractive proposition.

And to be clear, I've had several in my history of computing. They were always a disappointment. Then I just started gaming on a dedicated desktop and stopped compromising everything else "just in case".

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#344

Post by pvg »

sangnoir wrote: post #341
pvg wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some relevant, analogous examples from this history?

Steve Jobs incredulously derided both Android phablets ("no one wants these Hummer phones"[1]) and 7"/8" Android tablets ("They are so small, you'll have to file down your fingers to use them"[1]). All the while, Apple was working on both bigger iPhones and smaller iPads. When Apple's version of products were released, those niches weren't terrible, all of a sudden. 1. I'm paraphrasing

Sure but that's hardly Apple promising you to do or not do something and then doing the opposite. Jobs's schtick in these presentations always included talking smack about other products, nobody set their watches by that stuff. What makes it even thinner gruel is that in his lifetime, he was pretty much right - the Android versions of these products were poopy and Apple eventually made better ones. Do you think Job's shittalking in keynotes is actually solid supporting evidence that... Apple is going to turn Macs into iOS devices 9+ years after he died?

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#345

Post by lern_too_spel »

valuearb wrote: post #206
Multicomp wrote: post #16

> At some point in the not too distant future, old x86 applications will cease to run on Macs, as emulation support won’t run forever One thing I can credit Android some, and Windows a lot (even 10 with all its manifold privacy and user-hostility problems) with is that they are backwards compatible. exceptions to every rule, etc., but I can run all old versions of Android apps on an Android 11 phone, same for Windows…

I started developing iOS apps for iOS 5, and me my first apps still run on iOS 14 unchanged. Not sure what you are on about?

32 bit apps don't run on iOS 14.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#347

Post by pvg »

pvg wrote: post #284
satyrnein wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly the same, but it reminded me of how they never made FaceTime an open standard after stating they would.

This is not so much a flip but probably the closest thing to a meaningful 'reversal' compared to the other ones in thread so far. Like, they never said they will never have an App store, styluses are still specialized rather than standard input devices, etc. Obviously, companies both change direction and fail to meet various expectations all the time but 'history of flipping the script' seems pretty tenuous to me, so…

There's a few more I thought of in this vein, of various sizes:

zfs

java (and also ruby, python) as 'first class' Cocoa languages

GC'ed ObjC runtime

[Ancient history but kinda huge!] just about the entire post-System 7 technology stack and roadmap was tossed.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#348

Post by jki275 »

oarsinsync wrote: post #221
matwood wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Apple could be lying, but they (top executives) have stated multiple times that the mac is not an iDevice. They have also stated they have no plans to only allow installs from app store, and they understand the value of tools like brew etc...They are what makes the mac popular with developers. This could all change, but until it does articles like this feel a lot like FUD. Additionally, completely dismissing…

Apple have a history of denying anything until it's ready, and then they flip the script. While the article is clearly biased, it would be foolish to believe that Apple is a company that doesn't change course, going as far as total U-turns on public statements, as long as it's in their interests to do so. > They are what makes the mac popular with developers Developers believe that they're Apple's priority when it co…

You realize they fixed the keyboard, right? The Touch Bar is irritating, but I don't have to use it.

As someone who uses an MBP for development for 8-10 hours a day for work and another one for 4-6 hours a day for school, I'm pretty happy with them for development purposes

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#349

Post by jki275 »

sixothree wrote: post #251
jsgo wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hope so, but Apple implemented the wholesale Metal Only (not Metal Only unless you run a command in terminal) update which killed off using Nvidia cards for those of us who bought MBPs for eGPUing Nvidia cards. Considering Apple hardware doesn’t have a Nvidia option and people like me are probably niche to bring their own GPU (even though CUDA exists), it’d be highly unrealistic to think that Nvidia would rewrite the…

Isn't it still an open question as to whether M1 Macs will support discrete graphics cards at all?

They don't right now, and Apple hasn't advertised that they will. Of course it's early for the M1. Barely a few days past initial product launch.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#350

Post by vvwvvwvvw »

my123 wrote: post #105
vvwvvwvvw wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was wondering why Gamer Nexus (a very rigorous YouTube review channel) didn't sent a M1 device, while those Apple fanboy channels got it. Probably the dude would've torn the M1 performance claims apart.

Because those outlets never get Macs usually, and it isn't what they cover. Note that a laptop chip also isn't a gaming product, for obvious reasons.

Gamers Nexus also does CPU tests, when reviewing CPUs. Gaming benchmarks are an aside.

Also if Apple's opening statement for M1 is that its industry-leading, then they should let these reviewers substantiate it, because that's what they usually review.

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