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Gimp is 25 years old today

gimp.org

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Re: Gimp is 25 years old today

#221
post #193
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use purely mm for most Inkscape projects (not for laser cutting, but some are for my plotter). Set the units in Document Properties and it just works, IME.

Yes. I get when people criticize Inkscape for it's UI (personally I find it annoying to re-arrange the side windows), but feature-wise there is nothing left to be desired (except maybe CMYK not sure about that). But whenever I need something to be printed, it goes into Scribus anyway, and there we have CMYK.

> there is nothing left to be desired

Pretty much every time I’m working with vectors, my shapes have borders, and I want to control whether the borders are inside, on top of, or outside the shape (similar to eg box-sizing in CSS terms). As far as I can tell, inkscape still doesn’t support that :(

Re: Gimp is 25 years old today

#222
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I get when people criticize Inkscape for it's UI (personally I find it annoying to re-arrange the side windows), but feature-wise there is nothing left to be desired (except maybe CMYK not sure about that). But whenever I need something to be printed, it goes into Scribus anyway, and there we have CMYK.

> there is nothing left to be desired Pretty much every time I’m working with vectors, my shapes have borders, and I want to control whether the borders are inside, on top of, or outside the shape (similar to eg box-sizing in CSS terms). As far as I can tell, inkscape still doesn’t support that :(

Good point, that seems indeed not to be implemented. I get the use case for inner borders, could probably be tricked via clipping. But yes, that's definitely another exception.

Re: Gimp is 25 years old today

#223
post #14

GIMP is such a strange tool. I actually have used it, semi-frequently - since the 90s! The overall experience of using it has only changed a little in that time. And it gets the job done. I guess that makes it successful! What else has been so stable? But of all the software I have ever used, GIMP is the most difficult to learn. I memorized a few tutorials, this must have been around Y2K, to do the a couple things. A…

I only ever use GIMP out of necessity and when I do I can't wait to stop using it. I never had a pleasant experience using GIMP and it almost never failed to frustrate me. Just yesterday I had to use it, and this is what my search history looked like: https://i.imgur.com/ZP3U17i.png . I'm pretty fluent in Photoshop and I've also begrudgingly used GIMP for many years. It's a very bizarre tool.

> this is what my search history looked like

> gimp resize image

Image -> Scale Image

Very bizarre, indeed! Scaling the image is a "Scale Image" command in an "Image" menu.

> gimp rotate layer

Layer -> Transform -> Rotate { 90° Clockwise, 90° Counter-Clockwise, Arbitrary Rotation ...}

Totally undiscoverable. Rotating a layer is buried in the completely unrelated Layer menu and obfuscated by terminology. The user has to be a propeller-head who knows bizarre jargon, such as that a rotation is a kind of "transform" and might be hiding under a menu item labeled that way.

To add insult to injury, this menu item has not moved in at least 15 years to a more obvious place. Gimp clearly likes existing users better than new ones.

> gimp rescale interactive

In the latest stable Gimp (2.10.22) which I just installed last night, there is a surprise: I can't find the Rotate tool button. Aha, there is an "all in one" transformation tool. The Gimp version I previously used still had separate toolbar buttons for different transforms.

I see that we can right click on the all-in-one transformation button, and then pick a specific kind of transform. We want Scale, which is also available as the familiar Shift-S hotkey.

The Tool Options dialog comes up for the tool. I see that the very first item is a bunch of icon-labeled buttons next to a Transform: label. They all have tooltips: "layer", "selection", "path" and "image". Aha: Transform -> "image" must be what we want. We click on that.

Now we proceed to interactively rotate the image, and apply that change using the Scale button on the rotate dialog.

In summary: Shift-S to scale, pick "image", do the interactive scale, and click "Scale" to make it stick.

For your other queries, you just have to know how to work with transparent layers in Gimp. Gimp is not a carbon copy of Photoshop.

You were not born knowing how to erase pixels transparently in Photoshop.

Re: Gimp is 25 years old today

#224
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they should invite the Blender people over to fix the UI for them :-) Is this sarcastic? I opened blender once and had a panic attack. Gimp felt usable since the beginning.

No, Blenders look&feel used to be questionable in the past but then version 2.80 happened. They have an amazing UI (backend) now and keep improving. What was my personal wow moment as a programmer, was seeing that changing the display scale slider in the app properties does actually update the whole UI tree, cascading, rearranging and collapsing things down in realtime.

GIMP and Blender were my go-to-examples for why the Bazaar/community-style open source development process doesn't really work for UX-intensive apps. Then Blender 2.80 appeared.

Perhaps its UX development process was more Cathedral-like, though?

Re: Gimp is 25 years old today

#225
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the way I would put it is that GIMP is the perfect example of why companies hire UX designers. GIMP is textbook example of how software can technically have all the same features, but be insanely hard to use and utterly confusing to anyone without a guide. Compare it to Photoshop which does more or less the same things but anyone can naturally pick up and use.

Can they though? I'll admit it's a long time since I've sat in front of a Photoshop window, but I remember it being just as complex to use. Is this just partially a "what you're used to is easy & anything different is hard" thing? What exactly makes Photoshop easier to use in your opinion? This is a genuine question - I see this asserted so often, like it's a truism, but nobody ever seems to give specific examples.

Also in addition to other sibling comments--note that OT mentioned having been using GIMP for 20 years and still being unable to figure out anything new aside from the tutorials he studied. So being "used to" GIMP is evidently (although currently sample size 1) not enough for it to be "easy to use".

Edit. I'm not saying Photoshop is easier to use--it might be just as difficult but with better resources available people might be able to learn it better.

Re: Gimp is 25 years old today

#226
post #205

Very long time Gimp user, also photoshop user here. Full credit to all the hard working developers on it over the years. You should be proud of what you created. However. Gimp was always just slightly too good, mature, stable and complete, to justify alternative projects. Gimp IMHO is the reason we don't have a layered raster (& vector) editor in 2020 which can hold a candle to Photoshop. There have been attempts, bu…

We have Krita now. I don't know much about it, but it seems to be able to do many of the same things.

Krita can do quite a few basic things, and a few advanced things that Gimp can't, but they're really not in the same league. If you're a serious photo editor, Krita is quite lacking, and will always be - they do not intend to be a photo editor.

Re: Gimp is 25 years old today

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's perfect. It's a funky little tool you only take out of the box when you need it for a specific purpose. You use it (with vigor and some cussing because it fights back); get your job done, and shove it back into the box of shame, until the next time you need it. You might love what it does for you but you rarely celebrate the tool itself, preferring instead to delight in the faint tinge of shame. "GIMP" is the pe…

It is also something you call disabled people when you want to be really insulting. It doesn't matter one bit that you didn't mean it to mean that, that meaning still exists, and it's still what people see when they see the name. It is an absolutely awful name.

> It is also something you call disabled people when you want to be really insulting

Is it? I know some folks will point to a dictionary, but we live in a post truth world. It's odd to me that I've seemingly encountered every other usage of gimp, either personally or in media, but never an offensive usage. A horse with a gimp leg in the wheel of time, gimp the string at summer camp arts and crafts, a gimp suit in the tv show Archer, and gimp the image editing program as a teen. Language fundamentally means what we think it means - if nobody uses gimp as an offensive word, it's not offensive.

Have you ever heard it used offensively? If personally so, can I ask where (what county / cultural context)? If in media, can you name the work?

Re: Gimp is 25 years old today

#228
post #14

GIMP is such a strange tool. I actually have used it, semi-frequently - since the 90s! The overall experience of using it has only changed a little in that time. And it gets the job done. I guess that makes it successful! What else has been so stable? But of all the software I have ever used, GIMP is the most difficult to learn. I memorized a few tutorials, this must have been around Y2K, to do the a couple things. A…

I only ever use GIMP out of necessity and when I do I can't wait to stop using it. I never had a pleasant experience using GIMP and it almost never failed to frustrate me. Just yesterday I had to use it, and this is what my search history looked like: https://i.imgur.com/ZP3U17i.png . I'm pretty fluent in Photoshop and I've also begrudgingly used GIMP for many years. It's a very bizarre tool.

> I never had a pleasant experience using GIMP and it almost never failed to frustrate me.

Funny! I hear the same complaints about Photoshop only the amount of complaints are 10 times as much.

Re: Gimp is 25 years old today

#230
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have Krita now. I don't know much about it, but it seems to be able to do many of the same things.

Krita can do quite a few basic things, and a few advanced things that Gimp can't, but they're really not in the same league. If you're a serious photo editor, Krita is quite lacking, and will always be - they do not intend to be a photo editor.

I rather edit my photos in Krita than suffer through gimp any day.
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