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Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

#121

Post by edjrage »

phs318u wrote: post #83
jlokier wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately that doesn't work so well for a disease whose main source of risk to each person is the behaviour of other people.

On a different time scale it does. It’s selecting against groups/societies that reward, value or permit the kinds of behaviours and belief systems that allow such doggedly wilful ignorance to flourish.

Sorry, that doesn't work when most groups/societies are heterogeneous in ideals. Even most people being reasonable isn't enough when the behavior of the few who aren't must be tolerated in the name of freedom. So natural selection alone won't actually improve anything.

Re: Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

#122

Post by puranjay »

irrational wrote: post #20
ggambetta wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the lessons that I've learned from this pandemic is that despite overwhelming evidence and over a million deaths, there's a non-trivial amount of people who still believe it's not real, or who refuse to wear a mask, or who protest against the few, mild, reasonable measures we can take to get through this alive. So if anything, my faith in humankind has gone down :(

The fact that people can be literally dying from COVID in a hospital yet still deny its existence has almost totally destroyed any faith I have in humanity.

It's a strangely western phenomenon. People might be callous about safety measures here in India, but absolutely no one in my extended circle of friends and family has ever denied its existence or that it's something people need to be careful about.

Re: Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

#123

Post by edjrage »

411111111111111 wrote: post #70
rriepe wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who treats science as a religion ends up with a pretty terrifying morality.

You can remove science from that statement and it'll still be true. Whoever derives their morality from religion will at times behave pretty abhorrently. Thankfully nowadays even people claiming they do so often actually don't. I.e homosexuality is amoral according to the texts, but society moved on for the most part.

amoral =/= immoral

Re: Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

#124

Post by edjrage »

Misdicorl wrote: post #53
sorokod wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Place your faith in natural selection.

In addition to being ugly, this sentiment is pretty misguided. The selection pressure is far too mild to have any evolutionary impact. To whit: covid selects primarily against individuals beyond their reproductive age, selects far too small of the population (unless we see these deaths continue for decades), and is only mildly selecting for anti mask populations.

Most importantly, being anti-mask can't be attributed to a clear genetic variable (although I suppose there might be some very weak correlation), and natural selection takes way, way longer than a human lifetime to create noticeable results anyway. Not even getting into the fact that there's much more to evolution than natural selection. It actually scares me that supposedly "pro-science" people have such simplified views about it.

Re: Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

#125

Post by nthj »

trhway wrote: post #116
admax88q wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I don't see why they wouldn't. If everyone is wearing masks then the likelihood of transmission is lower. Also the viral load of any transmission may also be lower, which could improve the outcome.

i'm not arguing against [proper] masks lowering the transmission chance in any given case. I just don't see it having any aggregate effect. Basically i don't see the local effect translating into global. The herd immunity is 2/3. If say 1/3 of population has already some pre-existing immunity (from casual reading of Internet it looks that some noticeable share of population does have it for Covid and it seems larger…

This argument fails to include at least 3 factors:

1) A slower infection rate prevents or at least helps with “flattening the curve,” that is, avoiding overwhelming health care systems, which impacts both COVID and non-COVID patients

2) A lower initial viral dose seems to lead to better outcomes (lowers mortality rate)

3) We are seemingly within reach of effective vaccines

Re: Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

#126

Post by jonsno56 »

bigbubba wrote: post #96
echelon wrote: post #5

> Permafrost thaw in Siberia led to a 2018 anthrax outbreak and the death of 200,000 reindeer and a child. This is terrifying and not hypothetical.

Anthrax is found in the soil around the world and generally effects grazing animals like livestock, deer, etc. It is not contagious and isn't something you should lose sleep worrying about. It captures the public's attention because it has been weaponized. https://www.cdc.gov/anthrax/basics/index.html

Anthrax is just the flu

Re: Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

#127

Post by NateEag »

411111111111111 wrote: post #70
rriepe wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who treats science as a religion ends up with a pretty terrifying morality.

You can remove science from that statement and it'll still be true. Whoever derives their morality from religion will at times behave pretty abhorrently. Thankfully nowadays even people claiming they do so often actually don't. I.e homosexuality is amoral according to the texts, but society moved on for the most part.

You can remove religion and morality from that statement and it'll still be true.

People will at times behave pretty abhorrently.

Stalin wasn't religious, but he still initiated a gigantic slaughter of his own countrymen. Ditto Mao.

Just trying to make the point that being horrible correlates with being human, not being religious.

Re: Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

#128

Post by seventhtiger »

puranjay wrote: post #122
irrational wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that people can be literally dying from COVID in a hospital yet still deny its existence has almost totally destroyed any faith I have in humanity.

It's a strangely western phenomenon. People might be callous about safety measures here in India, but absolutely no one in my extended circle of friends and family has ever denied its existence or that it's something people need to be careful about.

Globally there's far more trust for institutions and authority than in America. Cultures which respect the elderly, the professional, and the official. Even beyond respect it extends to obedience in some places.

I definitely see it in my own culture, which is Arab. It's a double edged sword, and can be said to enable further oppression, but in a crisis situation it's useful.

Re: Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

#129

Post by [deleted] »

randycupertino wrote: post #4
Method-X wrote: post #3

Would be a fitting end to 2020; super COVID released from ancient arctic ice.

Perhaps we'll do better for the "next" pandemic now that we have the infrastructure in place and learned some lessons from COVID? Maybe I'm grasping for silver linings and being too optimistic towards humanity...

[deleted]

Re: Deep Frozen Arctic Microbes Are Waking Up

#130

Post by SoSoRoCoCo »

irrational wrote: post #20
ggambetta wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the lessons that I've learned from this pandemic is that despite overwhelming evidence and over a million deaths, there's a non-trivial amount of people who still believe it's not real, or who refuse to wear a mask, or who protest against the few, mild, reasonable measures we can take to get through this alive. So if anything, my faith in humankind has gone down :(

The fact that people can be literally dying from COVID in a hospital yet still deny its existence has almost totally destroyed any faith I have in humanity.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/11/17/south-...
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