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1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

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Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#81

Post by [deleted] »

mattferderer wrote: post #45
toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having spoken with someone today, at length, that thinks any improvement in the current situation is “socialism”, I think common ground won’t be found with some folks (and that’s okay, as long as you can get a majority onboard). You have to do the right thing regardless (go to the mat for overwhelming fiscal policy stimulus firepower short term, and driving towards improved policy long term, increasing the minimum wa…

Don't give up on the people who are so extreme one way or another. We need people in the middle to reign in those on the far outside edges of the political spectrum. It takes a lot of time, energy, effort & listening. Be kind. Don't chase them away. I see to many people chase away anyone who disagrees with them. Common ground can be found with everyone. I've found you can get those who hate capitalism to suggest capi…

[deleted]

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#83

Post by refurb »

llamataboot wrote: post #75

Some things are already starting to give way pretty loudly, and others are yet to come. You simply cannot maintain a democratic society (for whatever nominal value of democracy you want) with these levels on inequality and non-shared misery. I’m not sure what the next decade holds for the US, but it’s either gonna be some major-scale reinvestment and redistribution or it’s gonna get pretty damn unstable.

Prior to Covid the unemployment rate was the lowest it’s been in 40+ years and wage growth was 6%+ in 2019.

The issues this article highlights are not systemic, they are because of the pandemic.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#84

Post by donw »

llamataboot wrote: post #75

Some things are already starting to give way pretty loudly, and others are yet to come. You simply cannot maintain a democratic society (for whatever nominal value of democracy you want) with these levels on inequality and non-shared misery. I’m not sure what the next decade holds for the US, but it’s either gonna be some major-scale reinvestment and redistribution or it’s gonna get pretty damn unstable.

Given that the duopoly is beating the war drums again, I'm figuring "pretty damn unstable" is a lot more likely than any sort of focus on pesky trifles like "national infrastructure" or "healthcare".

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#85

Post by nradov »

omgwtfbyobbq wrote: post #27
_qulr wrote: post #12

"By comparison, the October jobless rate stood at 6.9%, down from 14.7% in April as workers regained jobs or gave up searching for work." I love how the hopeless are not counted as jobless.

The BLS should be using U-6, but I don't an administration would do that because it will make things look worse. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm

The BLS does use U-6. They are literally the agency which calculates and publishes U-6. They aren't hiding anything.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#86

Post by SoSoRoCoCo »

batt4good wrote: post #74

Regulate universities to reduce what they can charge for education. Federally kill teachers unions that have caused rot in public education. Do NOT forgive student loan debt as more than 50% of the debt is held by "high net worth" [0] individuals and graduate degree seekers [1]. Bailing out student loan debt without regulating what colleges can charge will only make current issues in education worse. Smart people com…

> Smart people command more value than dumb people

Completely disagree. This is one of the biggest lies being forced by the higher castes in the US. "Smart" is subjective, "value" is subjective.

Let's be honest: this statement only true because a certain class of people want it to be true. I value k-12 education in my world view more than I value derivitaves traders: in my ideal world teaching would be a high-paying competitive field and Black-Scholes would mean absolutely nothing.

But I can't tell if you don't realize the world we live in is what me we make it, or if you just accept what you are told the world "should be" because you're benefiting from the system and are scared to make it equitable.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#87

Post by donw »

_qulr wrote: post #73
koolba wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consistency in how statistics are measured is important. You can rag on the methods but without consistency it’d be meaningless. The majority of what you term as “hopeless” is seniors that are let go and eventually decide to retire rather than entering the work force at wages less than they earned previously. It’s not a bunch of disillusioned 20 somethings giving up on life.

> Consistency in how statistics are measured is important. You can rag on the methods but without consistency it’d be meaningless. Is it meaningless? Isn't it important to get as accurate an assessment as possible of the current situation? Arguably that's even more important than historical comparisons. > The majority of what you term as “hopeless” is seniors that are let go and eventually decide to retire rather tha…

Inconsistent definitions or methods render statistical comparisons meaningless.

You need that historical baseline to assess the current situation.

To provide an extreme example, as extremes are often useful in illustrating failure cases, it would be trivial to say that the murder rate in the US has dropped by nigh-on 100%. Simply redefine "murder" to mean "persons killed by a woman wearing a blue hat on the third Tuesday of February".

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#88

Post by dmoy »

_qulr wrote: post #73
koolba wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consistency in how statistics are measured is important. You can rag on the methods but without consistency it’d be meaningless. The majority of what you term as “hopeless” is seniors that are let go and eventually decide to retire rather than entering the work force at wages less than they earned previously. It’s not a bunch of disillusioned 20 somethings giving up on life.

> Consistency in how statistics are measured is important. You can rag on the methods but without consistency it’d be meaningless. Is it meaningless? Isn't it important to get as accurate an assessment as possible of the current situation? Arguably that's even more important than historical comparisons. > The majority of what you term as “hopeless” is seniors that are let go and eventually decide to retire rather tha…

> citation

It's not true. Discouraged workers is usually 2:1 for age 55.

Usually the vast majority are not seniors. GP just made that up

You can check for yourself via blm:

https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea38.htm

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#89

Post by bumby »

qppo wrote: post #56
topkai22 wrote: post #37

While their is much reasonable debate about what "true" poverty level rates are, this study uses a threshold of $20k/year for a worker. That's significantly higher than the federal rate set by the Census bureau at $14k/year for a single worker with no other household members. A 2 earner household each pulling in $18k a year, or $36k a year, in the cheaper parts of the US is not an easy life, but its also difficult to…

It's not difficult to call that poverty at all. It's uncomfortable or upsetting, but not difficult.

I think they meant it’s a different kind of poverty than we’re traditionally used to. Poverty is relative so modern poverty is much different than the dirt floor kind of poverty that was more common during the initiation of LBJ’s war on poverty

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#90

Post by jackcosgrove »

ilaksh wrote: post #50

Personally I believe that in some ways, both extreme political views are right. First, in my opinion, basic income is absolutely needed, and has been for quite some time. Not only the pandemic, but also the severe state of the long-term debt cycle, and the increasing automation, as well as existing social inequality, all make basic income necessary if we want to avoid more extreme levels of homelessness. And it seems…

If national productivity is insufficient to fund a basic income, how has a basic income been needed for some time? One of the assumptions of basic income is that automation will displace so many jobs that people will be redundant. But if the economy cannot fund basic income, then not enough people have been displaced yet, and there isn't enough automation.
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