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1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

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Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#41

Post by bilbo0s »

cool_dude85 wrote: post #10
throwaways885 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't the poorest in society naturally always going to be the bottom 25% or so? The poorest American is still in the top 10% of the world.

The poorest American, who earns 0 dollars in his lifetime, is absolutely not in the top 10% of world income.

Well, a poor American is not better off than, say, a middle class Ghanaian. Along pretty much every meaningful metric of human development, access to health care, access to good foods, access to education, the Ghanaian is probably better off. At the same time though, there are nations like Nicaragua, Mali and Cameroon. A poor American is absolutely better off than a middle class Cameroonian, or a middle class person from Mali.

So you're right that the old mantra about a poor American being in the top 10% of the world is no longer true. Having made that concession, we should also recognize that the poor in the US are still much better off than the poor in a lot of other countries. That group of countries has just been shrinking over the past 30 years.

Our main societal concern should be, "How do we reverse that trend?" Because more and more of the middle class are joining the ranks of the poor, and though it's only my opinion, I don't think that will end well for us.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#42

Post by kmonsen »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #11

What is that almost a 100 million people? Seems like a lot. I wonder how many have families and kids. Such a bummer. At least Granny is safe!

Norway (partial lockdown, schools still mostly open) compared to Sweden (little lockdown and talks of herd immunity): https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1327230581143465984

Note that Norway has seen less economic damage than Sweden.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#43

Post by systemvoltage »

arcticbull wrote: post #22
chokeartist wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? Grow up man.

American news is really bad, across the board — and doubly so for coverage of issues around and within America. If you want to find out what’s happening I recommend some combination of NPR, some Canadian news (I like the Globe and Mail) and probably Al Jazeera English.

NPR is American.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#44

Post by CinchWrench »

kiba wrote: post #40
jorblumesea wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't believe people think that way, unfortunately. Many people see this as the "natural order of things". The idea that a significant percentage of the population should be in debt, jobless or lacking healthcare coverage has been normalized and institutionalized in the US. Anyone who wants to change this will be fighting an uphill battle against cultural norms, vested business interests and ideological posi…

They do? Who are these people?

Lol. which people? The ones questioning why we should accept this or the ones foisting this on the population?

I could tell you but I'll be b& from commenting. :-)

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#45

Post by mattferderer »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #9
mcbutterbunz wrote: post #4

If you’re a capitalist or a socialist or somewhere in between, I think we should try to find common ground that this isn’t a good position for society or the future.

Having spoken with someone today, at length, that thinks any improvement in the current situation is “socialism”, I think common ground won’t be found with some folks (and that’s okay, as long as you can get a majority onboard). You have to do the right thing regardless (go to the mat for overwhelming fiscal policy stimulus firepower short term, and driving towards improved policy long term, increasing the minimum wa…

Don't give up on the people who are so extreme one way or another. We need people in the middle to reign in those on the far outside edges of the political spectrum. It takes a lot of time, energy, effort & listening. Be kind. Don't chase them away. I see to many people chase away anyone who disagrees with them.

Common ground can be found with everyone. I've found you can get those who hate capitalism to suggest capitalist ideas. I've found you can get those who hate socialism to suggest socialist ideas, especially around the ideas of safety nets regarding children, cancer and other health concerns.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#46

Post by kmonsen »

kiba wrote: post #40
jorblumesea wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't believe people think that way, unfortunately. Many people see this as the "natural order of things". The idea that a significant percentage of the population should be in debt, jobless or lacking healthcare coverage has been normalized and institutionalized in the US. Anyone who wants to change this will be fighting an uphill battle against cultural norms, vested business interests and ideological posi…

They do? Who are these people?

Everyone that votes republican. Even many centrist democrats think so.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#47

Post by grecy »

jorblumesea wrote: post #33
mcbutterbunz wrote: post #4

If you’re a capitalist or a socialist or somewhere in between, I think we should try to find common ground that this isn’t a good position for society or the future.

I really don't believe people think that way, unfortunately. Many people see this as the "natural order of things". The idea that a significant percentage of the population should be in debt, jobless or lacking healthcare coverage has been normalized and institutionalized in the US. Anyone who wants to change this will be fighting an uphill battle against cultural norms, vested business interests and ideological posi…

> The idea that a significant percentage of the population should be in debt, jobless or lacking healthcare coverage has been normalized and institutionalized.

FWIW, that's only true in America, which is only 5% of the world's population.

Hundreds of millions of people around the world have it much better.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#48

Post by kmonsen »

mattferderer wrote: post #45
toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having spoken with someone today, at length, that thinks any improvement in the current situation is “socialism”, I think common ground won’t be found with some folks (and that’s okay, as long as you can get a majority onboard). You have to do the right thing regardless (go to the mat for overwhelming fiscal policy stimulus firepower short term, and driving towards improved policy long term, increasing the minimum wa…

Don't give up on the people who are so extreme one way or another. We need people in the middle to reign in those on the far outside edges of the political spectrum. It takes a lot of time, energy, effort & listening. Be kind. Don't chase them away. I see to many people chase away anyone who disagrees with them. Common ground can be found with everyone. I've found you can get those who hate capitalism to suggest capi…

Americans hate socialism, but mostly loves socialist ideas like minimum wages, free healthcare etc. Florida who voted strongly for Trump, many thinks because of Socialist scaremongering, voted to raise minimum wage to $15 this year.

Republicans have tried to take away social security and medicaid/care, but their voters will not have it.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#49

Post by II2II »

wirthjason wrote: post #26
_qulr wrote: post #12

"By comparison, the October jobless rate stood at 6.9%, down from 14.7% in April as workers regained jobs or gave up searching for work." I love how the hopeless are not counted as jobless.

These statistics are hard to calculate. Defining “actively searching for work” is one way. You have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. For example, say I’m the primary breadwinner and my wife works part time at a restaurant and cares for our daughter in the remaining time. Work goes slow and she gets laid off. She could actively try to find another job but decides to spend full time with our daughter instead. I do…

It is difficult to define "actively searching for work" with a consistent baseline across the decades, but it is not all that difficult to arrive at a definition that is valid for any given point of time. Simply consider the social norms for the era. If it is considered normal to have two income households at any given point of time, then it is legitimate to include an unemployed spouse.

Another route, similar to the one in this study, may be considering people who are actively searching for work and where the household income is below a certain threshold (likely based upon the composition of the family).

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#50

Post by ilaksh »

Personally I believe that in some ways, both extreme political views are right.

First, in my opinion, basic income is absolutely needed, and has been for quite some time. Not only the pandemic, but also the severe state of the long-term debt cycle, and the increasing automation, as well as existing social inequality, all make basic income necessary if we want to avoid more extreme levels of homelessness. And it seems unlikely that significantly higher levels of homelessness will be tolerated without large increases in entitlements.

We also need much more effective tax policies related to corporations and wealthy individuals.

But I also believe that when people on the other side say that we can't pay for the basic income, they are correct. The income of the government will still not add up to be able to give everyone a livable floor to start with given the high cost of living in the US. And even with dramatic improvements in tax collection, its not going to come close.

So I believe that either we will end up creating a new type of high-tech money, or quite possibly have a global war where we try to defend the US currency.

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