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Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

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Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#311

Post by floatingatoll »

whatshisface wrote: post #303
floatingatoll wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Refuse to ever see them in person again until they do. Block them from viewing your Facebook wall until they do. Open every phone conversation by asking them if they have done so, and to send you a photo of the certificate if they did, or otherwise politely but firmly end the conversation and hang up. If they show up to a family gathering, leave immediately and take your children with you. Ask them to send you a phot…

That's a great list of things to do if you want to feel self-righteous, but what do you do if you actually want to convince them?

Those are all ways to pressure them into accepting your viewpoint and getting vaccinated for Covid.

No rational/logical argument basis would reliably succeed that I know of. People will surely try and no doubt some will succeed, but the argument approach is more likely to cause them to strengthen their anti-vaccination position than to change it.

The only way to reliably win is not to argue. Be clear that it matters to you, politely refuse to respond to barbs and baits, walk away rather than settle for their presence, deny them participation in your life, and ask them if their position has changed on a regular basis.

If you can construct a rational/logical argument method that is generally and widely effective, you can cure anti-vaxxers and anti-maxxers, and a whole lot of other societal ills. I support any such effort but after a couple decades I’ve gotten nowhere.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#313

Post by 0xffff2 »

lfuller wrote: post #195
xiphias2 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also depends on the known safety profile. With AstraZeneca some people already have to take pain medications after taking the vaccine...I wouldn't be comfortable putting using that vaccine without much wider testing. Fortunately I don't need to though, because soon we'll probably have 2 great vaccines to choose from.

Is that not a common side effect of all vaccines? I can't think of a time when I haven't had to take Advil for a couple days after getting the flu shot due to body aches.

I don't think pain serious enough to warrant medication is common at all. I used to administer flu vaccines in a former life, and I've never heard of anyone having such a strong reaction. Most people have some very mild soreness in their arm at most.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#314

Post by xiphias2 »

roel_v wrote: post #244
phillc73 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fortunately I don't need to though, because soon we'll probably have 2 great vaccines to choose from. Indeed! And I'll be going with the adenoviral route which has been used for more than fifty years, rather than the brand new, first time ever mRNA product.

Maybe this is a good place to tag on a question that someone reading this might be able to answer - while I know it hasn't bee tried yet so we don't 'know' yet, are there any theories on what would happen if you take multiple vaccines? Would that provide extra protection, could they react to each other negatively, or would it have (theoretically) no effect?

I think it's better not to experiment with it. It would take too much effort, especially as the Moderna vaccine has much better stability profile (it looks like the clear winner for hot climates / places where refrigerating is hard)

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#315

Post by Exmoor »

gvv wrote: post #29

Well just like I don't immediately update to the latest OS I think I'll wait for the beta testing to happen :)

To continue this analogy, this is more along the lines of a patch to fix a remote code execution bug that is being actively exploited in the wild at an increasing rate. Your alternative is to only connect to the network very infrequently, using a draconian firewall which doesn't completely protect you and hope for the best.

The security patch has been tested on tens of thousands instances for several months, the source code peer reviewed by literally the best experts in the world, and you'll most likely have to wait until its been installed on several million other endpoints before you get a chance at distribution?

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#317

Post by tuna-piano »

jackschultz wrote: post #291
tuna-piano wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like for fever, flue vaccine is more like 1-2%. So maybe 10-20x more fever with this vaccine than flu vaccine. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/flu-shot-facts/2020/09...

Nah depends on what fever means. I got my flu shot this year, and I didn't have a fever, but felt like garbage for a day and a half where it was a struggle to have energy to do much of anything. Fever != feeling crappy.

Ya, the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine appears to make a pretty large majority of younger people feel fatigue. a safe vaccine does not mean a fun vaccine.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#318

Post by bmj »

diag wrote: post #259
bluGill wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too late for that - the beta testers have already found it good. A phase 3 trial is beta test.

Phase 4 is like the RC, and by that point it seems to be pretty stable.

Phase 4 trials are typically post-approval and used to validate marketing claims ("Pfizer's Covid vaccine is also proven to promote weight loss," for example). The result of a phase 3 trial is a release candidate, and the FDA (or equivalent organization) stamps the RC as gold master.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#319

Post by floatingatoll »

known wrote: post #296
dfsegoat wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's naked mRNA wrapped in oil, basically?

“The lipid nanoparticles have some adjuvant activity, providing a little inflammation with the vaccination that helps the immune system to make antibodies and T-cells that target the Sars-Cov-2 virus,”

Itchy oil, then.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#320

Post by whatshisface »

floatingatoll wrote: post #311
whatshisface wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a great list of things to do if you want to feel self-righteous, but what do you do if you actually want to convince them?

Those are all ways to pressure them into accepting your viewpoint and getting vaccinated for Covid. No rational/logical argument basis would reliably succeed that I know of. People will surely try and no doubt some will succeed, but the argument approach is more likely to cause them to strengthen their anti-vaccination position than to change it. The only way to reliably win is not to argue. Be clear that it matters…

The idea that rational argument won't work does not imply that social pressure will... Or does it? How do we know? Have you ever successfully pressured someone into doing something?
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