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The Few, the Tired, the Open Source Coders

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31–40 of 173 posts

Re: The Few, the Tired, the Open Source Coders

#31
post #10

It isn't so much that companies are unfairly using others' work. It's that if you're going to use an open source tool in your business's codebase, you'll inevitably need support, upgrades, and bug-fixes, which translates into you putting pressure on the maintainers to do more work. By all means, use those people's previous work to put something amazing out into the world quickly. However, when you inevitably need hel…

This was so easy to "sneak" into the process where I work:

> The fastest way to get results is for me to contribute a fix.

> Can't we copy their code and fix it locally?

> Absolutely, but then we won't get any fixes from them in the future, unless we set up our own build infrastructure and have a team make sure that they merge across changes regularly.

... which starts sounding like lots of money. Your employer cares about the bottom line, so make it about the bottom line. The Linux Kernel is a fantastic example of egoistic altruism in action. You don't need to hire people to fix arbitrary things in OSS (although that would be appreciated), just fix the things you care about.

Finally, getting a PR merged into a big project makes any other method of training look grossly incompetent - and it's free. Go ahead and cancel that company-wide Pluralsight or Linked-in Learning contract, now we're saving money.

Don't ask for open source developers, ask to fix things in open source.

Re: The Few, the Tired, the Open Source Coders

#32
post #6

Open source has become yet another way for big tech companies to exploit laborers. If you are an independent developer working on an open source project without a copy-left license, you are a fool.

it sounds cynical, but before starting any code, I now ask myself "will a corporation profit from this labor?" and if so, I work on something else instead. I never have a shortage of ideas, so it's not a big deal.

Re: The Few, the Tired, the Open Source Coders

#33
post #10

It isn't so much that companies are unfairly using others' work. It's that if you're going to use an open source tool in your business's codebase, you'll inevitably need support, upgrades, and bug-fixes, which translates into you putting pressure on the maintainers to do more work. By all means, use those people's previous work to put something amazing out into the world quickly. However, when you inevitably need hel…

The maintainer is under no obligation to fix anything.

Oh there's a bug in this or that edge case? Please send a pull request and I'll consider it.

Re: The Few, the Tired, the Open Source Coders

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The language is a bit too extreme in my view. You release OSS knowing that anyone can come and pick it up. Even if they make a dime off your sweat. Pick your license, fine, but there's no reason for the devs to get upset about it because there's no lack of information out there. That being said, companies should kick down some love to the OSS projects they use. Especially big companies for which it's just a charitabl…

At every company I've worked I've lobbied for us to make donations to open source projects we depend on. Every single time it quietly dies in legal. There must be a better way.

I am not from legal, but too me there the problem would be: you use a product, but you dont 'buy' it, you 'donate' to the guy who made it, who is also 'super nice' and fixes some stuff about the product you need. This looks like a work/service/purchase agreement in disguise. Actually you dont want that to be possible.

Re: The Few, the Tired, the Open Source Coders

#35
I'm curious about when open source coders transition from enjoying sharing their product to feeling obligated to support their product to wanting some form of monetization when supporting their product becomes a job. Is it normally companies causing this or unrealistic expectations?

I know myself, when I put something in open source I feel a responsibility to maintain it for no reasonable reason.

Re: The Few, the Tired, the Open Source Coders

#36
post #6

Open source has become yet another way for big tech companies to exploit laborers. If you are an independent developer working on an open source project without a copy-left license, you are a fool.

My open source projects have given me the opportunity to collaborate with highly motivated and smart people. They've made me well-known in my niche and have brought me great job opportunities. They depend on relatively stable APIs and don't require a lot of maintenance. Writing open source code has been a positive experience for me, even though it doesn't directly make me any money.

Re: The Few, the Tired, the Open Source Coders

#37
There's a great Strange Loop talk by Evan Czaplicki (of Elm fame) where he alludes to the challenges of maintaining an open source project.[1] In it he describes how feedback often starts as an innocuous "Why don't you just...?" where the person making the request doesn't have the full understanding of the system as a whole and may see their request as a simple one-off that can be done quickly.

To answer them fully, the open source maintainer has to respond with a long explanation of why their suggestion isn't an option. Or, maybe they don't respond and now the original poster doesn't feel the community is supporting them. This asymmetry can lead to poor communication in the community.

I've been working on an app and was reading about the pros and cons of going freemium vs. pay up-front. I was surprised to read that people suggested the pay model is better for indie devs because with free, you'll have more users, but you'll also get worse feedback from the free users. Maybe there's a correlation between seeing something as free and feeling that the work behind it is trivial?

[1] https://youtu.be/o_4EX4dPppA

Re: The Few, the Tired, the Open Source Coders

#39
post #31
post #10

It isn't so much that companies are unfairly using others' work. It's that if you're going to use an open source tool in your business's codebase, you'll inevitably need support, upgrades, and bug-fixes, which translates into you putting pressure on the maintainers to do more work. By all means, use those people's previous work to put something amazing out into the world quickly. However, when you inevitably need hel…

This was so easy to "sneak" into the process where I work: > The fastest way to get results is for me to contribute a fix. > Can't we copy their code and fix it locally? > Absolutely, but then we won't get any fixes from them in the future, unless we set up our own build infrastructure and have a team make sure that they merge across changes regularly. ... which starts sounding like lots of money. Your employer cares…

I think it should be easier to make "mods" to existing codebases. I tried, once: https://github.com/liolaarc/monki (jeez, 5 years ago now.)

It's basically a git clone + a literate programming file that describes what changes to make to the code. It worked pretty well, though I often wonder whether it was just some silly idea.

So essentially, if you wanted to apply a fix to an open source codebase locally for your business, you could do that. It would be a clone, followed by a patch. (In this context, a "patch" is simply "here's the existing code I expect; here's the new code to replace it with." It works until that specific code changes at some point in the future.)

Re: The Few, the Tired, the Open Source Coders

#40
post #26

> While you're surfing the web, you ought to thank Jacob Thornton for making it so pretty. He's a programmer who, along with web designer Mark Otto, created Bootstrap, free software that the pros use to make their sites look spiffy. If you've ever noticed that a lot of websites have the same big chunky buttons, or the same clean forms, that's likely because an estimated one-fifth of all websites on the planet use Boo…

I very much disagree. Bootstrap is good and makes making websites quickly easy.

The ideas of Bootstrap now live in Tailwind and other CSS frameworks. I haven’t used Bootstrap proper when I switched to Tailwind in new projects though.

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