Shameless plug, but this is something we are working on right now. Social media is a terrible medium for news. Aside from the ability for anyone to post anything, which can easily lead to misinformation, it also sets up the absolute worst incentives. If news organizations are expected to share their reporting for free, and only be able to monetize when someone clicks through to their page -- you end up with clickbait…
I hope it works out! I tried registering for updates but got a Cloudflare 502. HN "hug of death"? Once it's sorted out, I'll give it another shot. Quick request: can you please add more details to a faq or something? eg. how much it'll cost for us users, will there be a desktop interface, etc. Thanks!
Information overload helps fake news spread
121–130 of 171 posts
Re: Information overload helps fake news spread
#122Shameless plug, but this is something we are working on right now. Social media is a terrible medium for news. Aside from the ability for anyone to post anything, which can easily lead to misinformation, it also sets up the absolute worst incentives. If news organizations are expected to share their reporting for free, and only be able to monetize when someone clicks through to their page -- you end up with clickbait…
I hope it works out! I tried registering for updates but got a Cloudflare 502. HN "hug of death"? Once it's sorted out, I'll give it another shot. Quick request: can you please add more details to a faq or something? eg. how much it'll cost for us users, will there be a desktop interface, etc. Thanks!
Re: Information overload helps fake news spread
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And obviously evidence was provided for none of this. what kind of evidence would you expect to see if it was true?
An exploit demo? An incriminating email? Testimony from Chavez's ghost? Hell, I'd take a suspicious correlation between firmware version and vote count, even. I'm not picky. But that's the problem, isn't it? You want the standard of evidence for reporting an allegation (e.g. "the election was stolen") to place the burden of proof on the listener ("Well, you can't prove the election was NOT stolen, can you?"). And tha…
Been done, pentesters have been crying about this for years.
> An incriminating email?
After the compromise of the Clinton email server I think they learned their lesson there.
> Hell, I'd take a suspicious correlation between firmware version and vote count, even. I'm not picky.
Theres been some technical arguments but they require some expertise to evaluate and probably aren't suited for a presser.
> But that's the problem, isn't it? You want the standard of evidence for reporting an allegation (e.g. "the election was stolen") to place the burden of proof on the listener ("Well, you can't prove the election was NOT stolen, can you?").
its a bit ironic that you can ignore existing evidence in favor of a contrary belief but claim the other side isn't presenting evidence.
> And that's pretty much the definition of "fake news". It's a lie. And they tell the lie because they know you'll believe it. And that's the problem. Not "information overload".
Oh I don't believe shit. its just odd that people are so insistent that this election was all on the up and up with no evidence whereas they aren't even willing to consider that someone might cheat in an election because "that would leave evidence and I haven't seen any"
Re: Information overload helps fake news spread
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
you are misinformed: "But as a government official traveling around the world championing the virtues of free speech, I came to see how our First Amendment standard is an outlier. Even the most sophisticated Arab diplomats that I dealt with did not understand why the First Amendment allows someone to burn a Koran. Why, they asked me, would you ever want to protect that?" -Richard Stengel, Biden Transition Team Member
How does that at all rebut what the person you're responding to has said? I've read your quote multiple times trying to see how it at all presents a "credible proposal to only allow the government approved version of truth."
perhaps if you explained it to me as though I was a small child.
Re: Information overload helps fake news spread
#125I think one of the root causes of this is the increasingly partisan behavior of the "mainstream" media. People are sick of having their opinions dictated to them, they're sick of media outlets that all push the same narratives 24/7 (Russiagate, anyone?), and they're desperately searching for any outlet that will objectively report "all the news that's fit to print" (as the NY Times likes to say). In the past year we…
What in the hell is Russiagate? If you're referring to Russia actively interfering with American elections through a pointed and state sponsored disinformation campaign that continues to this day... then that's not a narrative? That's a thing that's happening that matters and is one of the principle sources of bad actors behind this very article
> But certain facts will never go away no matter how much denial they embrace. The sweeping Mueller investigation ended with zero indictments of zero Americans for conspiring with Russia over the 2016 election. Both Donald Trump, Jr. and Jared Kushner – the key participants in the Trump Tower meeting – testified for hours and hours yet were never charged for perjury, lying or obstruction, even though Mueller proved how easily he would indict anyone who lied as part of the investigation. And this massive investigation simply did not establish any of the conspiracy theories that huge parts of the Democratic Party, the intelligence community and the U.S. media spent years encouraging the public to believe.
Re: Information overload helps fake news spread
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, you are rejecting the premise that a lot of misinformation is spread and it has much wider reach than in the past? I would say it has, and I consider only reasonable that there is a desire to understand the mechanisms behind it. I would consider the effects net negative. No need to a concerted effort.
I am rejecting that premise, yes. If you expect major news outlets to accurately report the truth, and believe we should only rely on their interpretation of reality, you are misled. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8mP2jN6bJI
This way, you don't get reports that, "x helps you be healthier!" when the study is really just showing that x culture has better marks on something OR a mouse study was showing promise, without reminding folks that most mouse studies don't work for humans (or that some mice are bred to make studies easier). I suppose the more damaging rhetoric would be presenting information that makes immigrants seem like criminals, when really, the crime rate is lower and the examples were isolated incidents.
I'd extend this to places that people expect as much truth as is reasonable - for example, vitamins and supplements. We know that "supports..." or "may reduce..." is taken as fact.
Ideally, you'd get your news from more than one source and if one source is almost always different from the others, you'd no longer use it as fact - but people aren't going to go through this process all that often if at all.
Re: Information overload helps fake news spread
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does that at all rebut what the person you're responding to has said? I've read your quote multiple times trying to see how it at all presents a "credible proposal to only allow the government approved version of truth."
its a government official speaking about the dangers of unfettered free speech. I'm genuinely at a loss as to what you want me to offer. perhaps if you explained it to me as though I was a small child.
Unless you are a small child or truly have the mentality of what, I will not speak down to you like that.
I will repeat your quote though:
> "But as a government official traveling around the world championing the virtues of free speech, I came to see how our First Amendment standard is an outlier. Even the most sophisticated Arab diplomats that I dealt with did not understand why the First Amendment allows someone to burn a Koran. Why, they asked me, would you ever want to protect that?" -Richard Stengel, Biden Transition Team Member
That quote is clearly an observation, not a call to action in itself. It is an observation that the US's notion of free speech is not at all universal, and can be confounding even to people with some quality ("sophistication", perhaps "worldliness" or other terms would be more helpful descriptors) that the author wouldn't expect it to confound.
You're claiming that it's some kind of call to action against "unfettered free speech" (which we already don't have in the US anyways).
Present an actual argument instead of taking a quote (properly attributed but sans context) and jump to conclusions that aren't in it. How hard is that to do? Learn how to construct and present arguments in ways that actually have a chance to persuade instead of making statements that verge on non sequiturs.
Here, I'll help you: Link to the actual opinion piece [0]. It's clear from that that he's arguing in favor of hate speech laws (which is a slippery slope, I'm pretty sure a few "Christians" I know would like hate speech laws so they could stop me from calling them anti-Christians), and thinks there's already precedent for such laws.
> The modern standard of dangerous speech comes from Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969) and holds that speech that directly incites “imminent lawless action” or is likely to do so can be restricted.
You didn't present that part though, I only stumbled on it because someone else linked to it in this thread.
TL;DR: You are terrible at argumentation.
[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/10/29/why-ameri...
Re: Information overload helps fake news spread
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does that at all rebut what the person you're responding to has said? I've read your quote multiple times trying to see how it at all presents a "credible proposal to only allow the government approved version of truth."
its a government official speaking about the dangers of unfettered free speech. I'm genuinely at a loss as to what you want me to offer. perhaps if you explained it to me as though I was a small child.
Re: Information overload helps fake news spread
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
An exploit demo? An incriminating email? Testimony from Chavez's ghost? Hell, I'd take a suspicious correlation between firmware version and vote count, even. I'm not picky. But that's the problem, isn't it? You want the standard of evidence for reporting an allegation (e.g. "the election was stolen") to place the burden of proof on the listener ("Well, you can't prove the election was NOT stolen, can you?"). And tha…
> An exploit demo? Been done, pentesters have been crying about this for years. > An incriminating email? After the compromise of the Clinton email server I think they learned their lesson there. > Hell, I'd take a suspicious correlation between firmware version and vote count, even. I'm not picky. Theres been some technical arguments but they require some expertise to evaluate and probably aren't suited for a presse…
Edit: and in the other direction, any input on why the non-machine hand count which just completed in Georgia affirmed the results from the original count? Doesn't that pretty much eliminate the whole conspiracy theory?
Re: Information overload helps fake news spread
#130This constant pushing of stories about Fake News and Misinformation makes it really feel like there's a concerted effort to alter public opinion on censorship and free speech.
I agree with the sentiment solely because most sides of the political spectrum are doing the same. Donald trump rose to the fame with calling everything fake news. Somehow everyone now believes there is fake news so they don't trust outside their own echo chambers which is called fake news by someone else. I think it's media hacking another vulnerable parts of human beings. I see attempts to censor and attempts to fa…
Trump, as he so often does, co-opted the attack and used it offensively. The same media that was fretting about fake news was suddenly being called fake news, which was when they decided they no longer liked the term.
The Washington Post made this public and explicit, saying the media should no longer use the term they had popularized just months prior:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/its-time-to-r...