Information overload helps fake news spread • Hacker News Board

Re: Information overload helps fake news spread

#61

Post by jcynix » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 9:25 PM UTC

onecommentman wrote: post #31

timr wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I’ve always found the news from my trusted sources to be reasonable and accurate until it covers something I know about. Then it seems like a complete mess." Same. This year, with the coverage of Covid (an area where I have a certain level of expertise), I've been bombarded with the extremely low quality level of essentially all of the major news providers. They are more than willing to amplify the most speculative…

There comes the time in the life of every professional where he is called upon to be interviewed or provide input to the press. And when they read the article or see the video that is produced, that is the day they lose faith in the press. True 50 years ago, true today. This is true even if both sides in good faith are doing the best job they can. The media always has its own agenda, which is never identical to the g…

Besides potential misinterpretations by laymen (which journalists often are) the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_bites_dog principle often takes effect.

Re: Information overload helps fake news spread

#62

Post by atoav » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 9:25 PM UTC

Nacdor wrote: post #44

I think one of the root causes of this is the increasingly partisan behavior of the "mainstream" media. People are sick of having their opinions dictated to them, they're sick of media outlets that all push the same narratives 24/7 (Russiagate, anyone?), and they're desperately searching for any outlet that will objectively report "all the news that's fit to print" (as the NY Times likes to say). In the past year we…

I think it is more complex than that. With social media and the internet people found a virtual friend that always approves their world view. And should something happen that doesn't fit the world view a cozy way out is just google search around the corner.

And of course: the world is confusing and complex. Stuff that was previously something only crazy people would believe turned out to be true (think Snowden). Given such a world isn't it easier to just form some idea in thin air and worship it instead of admitting that you have no clue what is going on? This is what is happening here.

And social media is the perfect echo chamber to avoid the cognitive dissonance one would get when the rubber meets the road in terms of an reality check. If there are millions others that share your world view how wrong can you be?

Media isn't innocent in that sense, politics isn't innocent, social media companies and marketing people aren't innocent. They are all complicit in this. But saying something among the lines of "people go to apeshit conspiracy nonsense sites because they don't trust the media" would be a bit far fetched as well.

I think the main reason people do it is because A) they can and B) it feels better than not doing it.

The classical media is certainly part of that feeling, but certainly not the biggest part of it.

Re: Information overload helps fake news spread

#63

Post by pstuart » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 9:25 PM UTC

eranima wrote: post #52

Nacdor wrote: post #44

I think one of the root causes of this is the increasingly partisan behavior of the "mainstream" media. People are sick of having their opinions dictated to them, they're sick of media outlets that all push the same narratives 24/7 (Russiagate, anyone?), and they're desperately searching for any outlet that will objectively report "all the news that's fit to print" (as the NY Times likes to say). In the past year we…

Imagine thinking Greenwald isn't trying to push a narrative.

Of course not! Bias only exists in "others".

Re: Information overload helps fake news spread

#64

Post by forest_dweller » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

goalieca wrote: post #3

I’ve always found the news from my trusted sources to be reasonable and accurate until it covers something I know about. Then it seems like a complete mess. Humans tend to trust the first thing they hear and we tend to be less skeptical about news media especially if they seem very confident or persuasive.

You are describing the Geil-Mann amnesia effect.

> He used this term to describe the phenomenon of experts believing news articles on topics outside of their fields of expertise, even after acknowledging that articles written in the same publication that are within the experts' fields of expertise are error-ridden and full of misunderstanding

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Crichton#GellMannAmnes...

Re: Information overload helps fake news spread

#65

Post by youareostriches » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

Nacdor wrote: post #44

I think one of the root causes of this is the increasingly partisan behavior of the "mainstream" media. People are sick of having their opinions dictated to them, they're sick of media outlets that all push the same narratives 24/7 (Russiagate, anyone?), and they're desperately searching for any outlet that will objectively report "all the news that's fit to print" (as the NY Times likes to say). In the past year we…

Is this really a new phenomenon? Fox News has been peddling blatantly partisan propaganda ever since the Reagan administration tore down the fairness doctrine in the late 80s.

Re: Information overload helps fake news spread

#66

Post by chordalkeyboard » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

ethanwillis wrote: post #25

zyxzevn wrote: post #8

Most information, also in scientific publications, is full with logical fallacies and other inconsistencies. This again causes people to jump to conclusions on the basis of limited information/evidence. I tried to give a guideline on how to do critical thinking and how to investigate the truth about something. The first steps are: 1) logical fallacies 2) the scientific method .. And I think that these should be part…

But what's number 3??

He covered that under number 6) Unknowns.

Re: Information overload helps fake news spread

#67

Post by Nacdor » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

kibwen wrote: post #55

Nacdor wrote: post #44

I think one of the root causes of this is the increasingly partisan behavior of the "mainstream" media. People are sick of having their opinions dictated to them, they're sick of media outlets that all push the same narratives 24/7 (Russiagate, anyone?), and they're desperately searching for any outlet that will objectively report "all the news that's fit to print" (as the NY Times likes to say). In the past year we…

I feel like anyone railing against "mainstream" media hasn't been paying attention for the past decade. Facebook, Reddit, etc. each command more daily eyeballs than any cable news network, and yet somehow they're not mainstream? Social networks are the overwhelming bulk of the media apparatus these days.

Facebook and Reddit are not publishers of news so that comparison makes no sense.

Re: Information overload helps fake news spread

#68

Post by klmadfejno » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 9:27 PM UTC

onecommentman wrote: post #42

jasonv wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading HN though, every assertion from someone who knows something can become a thread of dispute, disagreements and "yeah, but" digressions. So, maybe, who knows anything..

“Who knows anything” sounds dangerously close to nihilism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism The problem is nihilists never produce anything of lasting value. Or of any value. It seems to be the posture of those who feel like failures, and justify that perceived failure to themselves by telling themselves that nothing is worth anything. Perhaps others hold that position too. It seems like a dead end in a lot of w…

A lot of Nihlism is about recognizing that even if everything is without intrinsic meaning and arbitrary subjectivity, that you can assert yourself to a meaningful life in spite of it all. I find that a compelling argument personally.

Re: Information overload helps fake news spread

#69

Post by lucian1900 » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 9:27 PM UTC

bananabreakfast wrote: post #54

Nacdor wrote: post #44

I think one of the root causes of this is the increasingly partisan behavior of the "mainstream" media. People are sick of having their opinions dictated to them, they're sick of media outlets that all push the same narratives 24/7 (Russiagate, anyone?), and they're desperately searching for any outlet that will objectively report "all the news that's fit to print" (as the NY Times likes to say). In the past year we…

What in the hell is Russiagate? If you're referring to Russia actively interfering with American elections through a pointed and state sponsored disinformation campaign that continues to this day... then that's not a narrative? That's a thing that's happening that matters and is one of the principle sources of bad actors behind this very article

There’s no conclusive evidence of that.

On the other hand, there’s overwhelming proof of the US interfering in the politics of other countries, from coups to invasions. Especially in Russia in the early 90s. And several coup attempts just this year.

Re: Information overload helps fake news spread

#70

Post by Nacdor » Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 9:27 PM UTC

eranima wrote: post #52

Nacdor wrote: post #44

I think one of the root causes of this is the increasingly partisan behavior of the "mainstream" media. People are sick of having their opinions dictated to them, they're sick of media outlets that all push the same narratives 24/7 (Russiagate, anyone?), and they're desperately searching for any outlet that will objectively report "all the news that's fit to print" (as the NY Times likes to say). In the past year we…

Imagine thinking Greenwald isn't trying to push a narrative.

Maybe I will imagine you posting a substantive response instead.