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"Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

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Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#591

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

a_imho wrote: post #582
mavelikara wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

S/he is asking you, in reply, why it is OK for some people to get better purchasing power for the same economic contribution.

The purchasing power is the property of the money received, it is exactly the same in all cases. If the problem is that we want to ensure some kind of equality of outcome that is ill posed 1. Companies are not arbiters to define what that outcome should be. In fact, any such attempt boils down to the argument that the current status quo is the natural state of things and everything should stay that way. Trying to com…

>The purchasing power is the property of the money received, it is exactly the same in all cases.

That's nonsensical. You can trivially find examples of where the same goods cost different prices in different locations.

Here's a really simple example. $5.79 will buy you a McDonald's Sausage Egg McMuffin meal in Montgomery AL. The same menu item is $6.71 in Los Angeles CA.

The same money has less power to buy goods and services in Los Angeles than it does in Montgomery. You know this intuitively; the same way you know that a gallon of milk is more expensive in New York City than it is in Madison.

I don't know why you're tying yourself up in knots to come to the opposite conclusion.

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#592

Post by gtsop »

dionidium wrote: post #358
gtsop wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In reality, your compensation is a function of your negotiating power. Ahhmm, no. Where does negotiation power stem from? Is it a skill? No. You are a product much like eveything else in this economy and you price is a function of how much you cost (living cost, heavily depedent on location) + supply/demand trends. Yes, your attitude and negotiation skills can impact your salary but only by a bit. You can't get you…

> Ahhmm, no. Where does negotiation power stem from? Is it a skill? No. > You can't get your salary to tripple by negotiation. Why? What is the force that doesn't allow that? I can't triple the speed at which I can throw a baseball, either, because of physics, but it's obviously a skill I can improve relative to other throwers of baseballs.

That is why i explicitly said > Yes, your attitude and negotiation skills can impact your salary but only by a bit

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#593

Post by gtsop »

pc86 wrote: post #440
gtsop wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly interested in hearing your opinion on how to do that.

Address business concerns, don't just write code. Almost anyone can write some spaghetti Java and get it to build, but most people who can do that can't operate well in a business environment dealing with executives and C-level people. If you can do both, you're no longer a commodity.

Even those people have specific salary ranges. They still are commodities or as the corp-speak put it: "assets". More expensive ones, for sure, but still the same rules apply. My living cost will be a hugr factor of my salary even in these positions. Speaking from experience.

However, even if that wasn't the case, even if what you say is valid, these are inherently limited jobs so it's not a solution everyone can apply.

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#594

Post by gtsop »

woah wrote: post #399
gtsop wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In reality, your compensation is a function of your negotiating power. Ahhmm, no. Where does negotiation power stem from? Is it a skill? No. You are a product much like eveything else in this economy and you price is a function of how much you cost (living cost, heavily depedent on location) + supply/demand trends. Yes, your attitude and negotiation skills can impact your salary but only by a bit. You can't get you…

Working across a lot of time zones is a huge barrier and leads to all kinds of miscommunication. You can avoid some issues by focusing on written asynchronous communication, and maybe modularizing the work so that different time zones are working on different things, but this tends to calcify and slow down a product development process.

Correct, but what are the long term gains/damages of a company paing half the salaries while being slowed down? That's something to be explored before we can conclude the slow down yields worse oveeall results

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#595

Post by bumby »

whimsicalism wrote: post #580
bumby wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren’t they mandated in non-right-to-work states in union shops?

No, the company has voluntarily entered into a contract to only hire through the union. They could have not entered into such an agreement but voluntarily chose to do so, and nobody was mandated to join a union, as all job offers are also voluntarily accepted.

I meant from the perspective of the employee. If there’s a contract in place in a non-right-to-work state, you must join the union.

The “just find a different job” position is the trivial case that doesn’t really add much to the discussion

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#596

Post by whimsicalism »

bumby wrote: post #595
whimsicalism wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the company has voluntarily entered into a contract to only hire through the union. They could have not entered into such an agreement but voluntarily chose to do so, and nobody was mandated to join a union, as all job offers are also voluntarily accepted.

I meant from the perspective of the employee. If there’s a contract in place in a non-right-to-work state, you must join the union. The “just find a different job” position is the trivial case that doesn’t really add much to the discussion

There is no law requiring you join a union in any state. It might be that you have to join a union upon being hired for a job, just like I had to waive my right to sue my employer in a court of law (rather than an arbitrator) in order to accept my current job. I was never mandated to do so, at least not in the way that right-to-work laws mandate that employers can't sign security clauses with unions because they would go to jail or be fined.

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#597

Post by JAlexoid »

whimsicalism wrote: post #546
JAlexoid wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mandated unions, union bans and laws undermining union contracts - are all infringements on freedom of association.

> Mandated unions Unions aren't mandated by law anywhere.

That's literally not true.

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#598

Post by JoeAltmaier »

tolbish wrote: post #581
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't follow. How does income get less polarized? Toledo Engineers working remotely but at Toledo pay, are not ahead. I guess they have a larger market for their skills? But that could lower rates thru competition.

The money those Toledo Engineers make is spent on Toledo things, not Bay Area things. Therefore, Toledo local economy benefits.

Sure money gets spread around. But I was talking about income. Remote hiring still often asks about 'where are you going to live' so they can claim its ok to pay you less there. That's the issue.

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#599

Post by JAlexoid »

bumby wrote: post #569
JAlexoid wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok... Is there a law somewhere that says that you have a right to have a Walmart? As an anarchist - why are people not willing to start a co-op?

Short answer: people have limited bandwidth and are forced to pick their battles. Open your refrigerator, look in your closet. Can you say with certainty that you voted with your wallet by only supporting companies that adhere to your values? Today’s economy has too many interactions to have any confidence about how you vote with your wallet. In this case complexity, not religion, is the opiate of the masses. Most pe…

Well... The answer isn't to force Walmart to provide a service to them.

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#600

Post by JAlexoid »

bumby wrote: post #551
JAlexoid wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's too much of "we know better" attitude. Where people fail to realize that what they want to force other people to do - is not necessarily the best option.(the typical issue of healthcare and freedoms) In the end getting back to the OG topic - it ends up being forced social engineering, instead of freedom and social fluidity. People who can only et paid 6 figures by virtue of geography are going to shout and sc…

> There's too much of "we know better" attitude. I think this is the cynical view that paints it in an arrogant light. The alternate is there is an acknowledgement that the system is less than ideal and could be improved. > People who are awesome get shafted I mean, isn't this par for the course in any group environment? If you're healthy, you get shafted by paying more into insurance than you use. If you're wealthy…

> I think this is the cynical view that paints it in an arrogant light.

Because it is arrogant to say that vegans must subsidize milk production(which they do), it is arrogant to say that an atheist must pay compensate for Church tax exemptions... and the farther away the taxing authority, the more arrogant it is. The biggest issue that I have with my taxes here in US - subsidies for military to fight a war on behalf of the Saudis in Yemen.

If you're willing to pay for or contribute to something bigger/better - then why use tax for it?

> I mean, isn't this par for the course in any group environment

When you voluntarily join said environment - sure.

Funny... Being gay, growing up in Lithuania and living on $10 per week(between me and my mother) - I got to be libertarian well before I got to earn those 6 figures.

PS: I also detest Ayn Rand.

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