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My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

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Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#421
post #345
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like your kid just isn’t interested in the same things you are. If the flashy entertainment were stripped away, they probably would’ve never cared about it. And that’s okay.

I don't think it's that easy. The dopamine-traps of today can hardly be compared to the ones from twenty years ago. Compared to the effort of creating, there's some seriously low hanging fruit these days.

There's always been low hanging fruit. There were video games from the dawn of computing. I played games and did programming, sometimes more gaming, sometimes more coding. My mother worried generically about 'computer time'.

Many of my friends had games consoles, or computers but they only used BASIC to load games from cassettes. They turned out fine. None of them ever expressed the slightest interest in creating anything but they went on to do other useful things, like teaching or social care.

We are way, way too quick to assign complicated sciencey sounding explanations to stuff earlier generations would have described as common sense. Games are fun. Reading is fun. Talking is fun. Parents used to despair at the hours their daughters would spend on the expensive telephone instead of doing more child-y or creative things, and so what? They all worked out fine. The world is not short on creative people.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is it so obviously not heroin Its quite obviously literally not-heroin. If you want to make an argument that it should be treated like heroin because it is in some relevant sense more like heroin or other things that it is broadly accepted should be treated like heroin than it is like other things that it is broadly accepted should not be treated like heroin then...some evidence besides simply stating your beli…

Sufficient evidence was presented for the metaphor, it seems apt and you seem to be overly obtuse. You seem unwilling to look beyond the obvious "its quite obviously literally not heroin". My god you sound insufferable.

It is really not sufficient evidence for the metaphor, though.

The point may be that it is akin to "drugs" but not all drugs are like heroin and what he is describing is nothing like heroin cravings and withdrawal.

Why not go with something that invokes less emotions in the reader like "caffeine" or "nicotine"?

Because the itch to check on a notification or scroll through the news feed is surely closer to the itch for a cigarette or your vaporizer than... heroin. That's a big jump there just to describe "compulsive desire".

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it so obviously not heroin? I, a fully-formed and functioning adult, feel the pull in my brain. I was addicted to cigarettes in my 20s and I've had unhealthy relationships with numerous other drugs and video games that I've (mostly) managed to pull myself away from, after years. The feeling of "checking your notifications" and "scrolling through twitter" on your phone are remarkably similar to the compulsion f…

> How is it so obviously not heroin Its quite obviously literally not-heroin. If you want to make an argument that it should be treated like heroin because it is in some relevant sense more like heroin or other things that it is broadly accepted should be treated like heroin than it is like other things that it is broadly accepted should not be treated like heroin then...some evidence besides simply stating your beli…

The point you're making may be that it is akin to "drugs" but not all drugs are like heroin and what you are describing is nothing like heroin cravings and withdrawal.

Why not go with something that invokes less emotions in the reader like "caffeine" or "nicotine"?

Because the itch to check on a notification or scroll through the news feed is surely closer to the itch for a cigarette or your vaporizer than... heroin. That's a big jump there just to describe "compulsive desire".

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#424
post #87

Buried lede: > My daughter doesn’t return home from school until 6:30 pm and still has to eat, bathe, and get ready for bed. Perhaps it is not just the iPhone, but school taking up 100% of her time, energy, and attention that is preventing her from pursuing creative interests? As a homeschooling parent whose kids have been in school at times, I see this first hand. School is exhausting . Between rising unnaturally ea…

Tldr. I didn't read the article. My kids are fine, I think you're wrong. Why is this the top comment?

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#426
I may be misjudging the author, but this awfully reminds me of my childhood and makes me angry for this child.

Everything I did had to be approved. They were always on my back, watching and controlling everything.

If I wanted to do something they did not approve, they were angry or mocked me. They forced me on activities I hated because THEY liked it. Never aknowledging my wishes or needs.

Never had privacy because they always had to check everything I was doing. Even closing my door made them angry. God save me if I dared to actually lock it, hell would loose on me.

When I asked for help, they never really bothered, they even laughed at me and made me feel like I should be ashamed to ask a question.

I lived under ridiculously strict, completely non-logical and arbitrary rules in everything in my life. Even daring to ask an explanation made them angry because I was defying their authority.

Want to get this nice book you like? Too bad, you don't have money. But mom does not think this book is interesting, so we'll get this other one instead. What, you already want to buy something else? We already bough you a book last week, you should be grateful.

They moved in the countryside because they are completely antisocial.

What, you want to visit a friend? I'll have to drive you, you are so annoying. We'll do this another time.

What, you want to go to disneyland? And a shopping center? Do you even know how much it costs and how many people are there?

What, you don't want to spend every sunday with us visiting completely uninteresting places with us? What's wrong with you, why don't you never get out of the house?!

You got punished again at school? [hell looses on me] I was sure your friends were not very frequentable, stop stop meeting them. Seriously, why didn't the teachers see that? Parents and teachers are so incompetent nowadays. Fortunately you have parents giving you a good education.

Computers were the only place where I could escape from this hell. I could have my own virtual world and they could not control it. I could subscribe to a PhpBB forum and talk with actual human beings about things I actually liked. I could choose any video game, movie and music and get it on Emule without asking permission.

This had and still have devastating consequences on my well-being.

You should be listening to what your child wants and teach her how to make her own smart choices. You should give her freedom, love and care, not arbitrary limits without even un explanation.

If I did not have my computer that my parents did not understood, if they had the power and knowledge to control and choose what I am allowed to do with it, I probably would have ended-up killing myself or something.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as an adult you choose to be there With the alternative frequently being homelessness. It's a lucky few (relatively speaking) who can freely switch jobs and pursue passions. Most people work simply so they can continue to have a home, food, water, heat...

You still have way more flexibility and choice. You can decide to work more, work less, find a new job etc. What you get out of it is different and perhaps you don't want to give up your lifestyle, but you can decide to do that. You have no such choices as a kid.

If only. There are pretty much two settings available to most Americans: full time or more, and poverty. Relatively few people have the luxury of being able to spend a lot of time looking for better employment (again this is on top of all the working they are doing) or working less. I, for one, would gladly work a lot less for equivalently less pay, it just isn't an option available to me.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#428
post #87

Buried lede: > My daughter doesn’t return home from school until 6:30 pm and still has to eat, bathe, and get ready for bed. Perhaps it is not just the iPhone, but school taking up 100% of her time, energy, and attention that is preventing her from pursuing creative interests? As a homeschooling parent whose kids have been in school at times, I see this first hand. School is exhausting . Between rising unnaturally ea…

> When my kids home school they will spend a lot of time playing roblox or whatever, but then they'll spend hours playing outdoors, decide to do a cooking project that takes all morning–currently one of mine is getting into "bushcraft" and he'll watch hours of videos about making fires, carving etc. before putting the tips it into practice (safely) during times outdoors, where he spends hours and hours. Then he'll come back, play roblox for an hour, then help clean up and put the younger kids to bed.

Is there any time when he actually studies?

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#429
post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Got his phone and now is addicted Isn't watching educational videos on YouTube exactly the thing most of us ( parents ) would want?

It seems more like he was watching educational videos on YouTube before getting a phone, and has since become addicted to other phone things?

Yes. Addicted to Twitter, instagram etc.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've found that the biggest impact you can have on anyone's behavior (adult or child) is to set the example. I agree in principle, but I find that that doesn't map very well to the digital world. This past Saturday, I spent about six hours staring at a screen. My kids did too. I was making music, an act I find creative, meaningful, and intellectually stimulating. They were mostly watching YouTube videos of people p…

Learning to play Minecraft seems like a meaningful activity. It's essentially digital Legos, not to different perhaps from the way you compose music on your digital canvas. Is there something else you would rather your kids be doing?

Go outside. Explore the neighborhood. Ride your bike. Read a book. Practice your cello. Tinker in the basement.

I may be old fashioned, but Minecraft strikes me as faux-creative. It's not something you get "better" at. That's just my reaction, having watched it done. It puts you in a state of flow without actually flowing anywhere.

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