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Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

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Re: Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

#21

Post by bff »

tspiteri wrote: post #9
slackerIII wrote: post #3

Will this allow them to increase clock speeds? They mention a 37% perf increase, but I don't know what exactly they mean by that.

I would think that they are talking about clock frequency. They do say that you can either have the 37% performance increase, or use less than half the power when at the same performance.

It's probably easier to use that much less power for the same performance than to push the same power in and get higher performance. On smaller size scales power leakage and heat dissipation become bigger issues so you might not be able to push the same amount of energy through as with the larger scale chip.

Re: Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

#22

Post by zosi »

makmanalp wrote: post #15

"the world's first 3-D transistors, called Tri-Gate, in a production technology" I wonder if this is truly Intel's invention or not: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=tri+gate+trans...

All of those papers either post-date Intel's announcement from 2003 regarding tri-gate transistors, or are written by Intel employees. That search also brings up multiple patents held by Intel on the technology.

Re: Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

#23

Post by ajross »

stephenjudkins wrote: post #14

From what I've heard, using 50% as much power for the same performance as the previous generation still will not be sufficient to bring Intel's Atom performance/energy consumption ratio to that offered by ARM chips. However, it's a huge leap in the right direction. Add better-designed power-saving features on the next generation of Atom chips, and future process shrinkages, and it's easy to see ARM's lead getting chi…

This is orthogonal. An ARM Cortex (or GPU, or whatever) on this process would see similar gains.

It's also worth pointing out that current Atoms in the market are still 45nm parts, not even 32nm. Intel, for obvious reasons, tends to prioritize production of high-margin desktop and server CPUs over low-margin embedded parts.

Really, this announcement isn't about ARM-based vs. Intel-based SoC designs. I think it's clear that Intel has some catching up to do there. This is about Intel cementing and extending its complete and total dominance of high end digital logic fabrication. At this point they look to be about a full two years ahead of everyone else. AMD, IBM, Samsung, TI, TSMC and the rest of that crew have to be more than a little worried.

Objectivity disclaimer: my wife is at Intel working on precisely this 22nm process. So I'm about as biased a source as you can find.

Re: Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

#24

Post by sosuke »

GavinB wrote: post #19

It will be interesting to see whether patents will make this a defensible innovation. Will AMD et all have to invent a similar but materially different technology in order to keep pace?

Considering Intel first announced the Tri-Gate tech in 2002 AMD would have to had been working on something for 9 years to be launching a competitor anytime soon.

Re: Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

#25

Post by wmf »

nextparadigms wrote: post #20
stephenjudkins wrote: post #14

From what I've heard, using 50% as much power for the same performance as the previous generation still will not be sufficient to bring Intel's Atom performance/energy consumption ratio to that offered by ARM chips. However, it's a huge leap in the right direction. Add better-designed power-saving features on the next generation of Atom chips, and future process shrinkages, and it's easy to see ARM's lead getting chi…

Atom is 2 generations behind in the manufacturing process compared to this. They'll barely start making them at 32 nm next year, and that will last for another 2 years.

Intel recently announced that they're going to catch up Atom (semi-misleadingly marketed as "faster than Moore's Law") so they're at 45 nm now, they'll release 32 nm Atom later this year and 22 nm Atom in early 2012.

Re: Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

#26

Post by sliverstorm »

ajross wrote: post #23
stephenjudkins wrote: post #14

From what I've heard, using 50% as much power for the same performance as the previous generation still will not be sufficient to bring Intel's Atom performance/energy consumption ratio to that offered by ARM chips. However, it's a huge leap in the right direction. Add better-designed power-saving features on the next generation of Atom chips, and future process shrinkages, and it's easy to see ARM's lead getting chi…

This is orthogonal. An ARM Cortex (or GPU, or whatever) on this process would see similar gains. It's also worth pointing out that current Atoms in the market are still 45nm parts, not even 32nm. Intel, for obvious reasons, tends to prioritize production of high-margin desktop and server CPUs over low-margin embedded parts. Really, this announcement isn't about ARM-based vs. Intel-based SoC designs. I think it's clea…

Indeed. ARM chips are not better made, they are better designed- at least in regards to low power. It's an architectural thing. This is very much like the old software rule; a good algorithm on slow hardware will often outperform a bad algorithm on fast hardware.

Re: Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

#27

Post by jacquesgt »

bradly wrote: post #11

Anyone know if the 3D structure is patented by Intel? If so, wouldn't this give Intel a monopoly on transistors given how much better this new design performs?

I don't know if it's patented, but TSMC is apparently working on deploying the technology (according to the NYTimes article linked above). So, there are definitely people who think that Intel doesn't have a monopoly on the design.

Plus, there's far from a consensus that this is the best design out there. It hasn't been proven in mass production yet. STMicroelectronics, a massive player in microcontrollers (which often go into applications with even tougher power constraints than mobile phones), is pushing Silicon on Insulator pretty for their next generations.

Re: Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

#28

Post by [deleted] »

tspiteri wrote: post #10
riledhel wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clock speed is just another metric, not the most important one. You also have chips that do several operations per clock cycle, low power consumption chips, chips that do parallel processing. All these factors affect performance as well.

That may be true for a processor, but when talking about transistors, I think that clock speed and power consumption are the metrics to measure.

[deleted]

Re: Intel Reinvents Transistors Using New 3-D Structure

#30

Post by Palomides »

ajross wrote: post #23
stephenjudkins wrote: post #14

From what I've heard, using 50% as much power for the same performance as the previous generation still will not be sufficient to bring Intel's Atom performance/energy consumption ratio to that offered by ARM chips. However, it's a huge leap in the right direction. Add better-designed power-saving features on the next generation of Atom chips, and future process shrinkages, and it's easy to see ARM's lead getting chi…

This is orthogonal. An ARM Cortex (or GPU, or whatever) on this process would see similar gains. It's also worth pointing out that current Atoms in the market are still 45nm parts, not even 32nm. Intel, for obvious reasons, tends to prioritize production of high-margin desktop and server CPUs over low-margin embedded parts. Really, this announcement isn't about ARM-based vs. Intel-based SoC designs. I think it's clea…

but surely it is patented to a crazy extent, and therefore we won't be seeing it hit ARM stuff unless Intel lets it? so I doubt we will see orthogonal gains immediately from it.
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