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My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

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Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be true, if electronic gadgets were the same as previous obsessions. But they're different. They change from second to second, providing a level of stimulation unprecedented in human experience. It's possible we're not going to adapt well to this e-world. There's no reason to think an evolved ape has the wiring to make the transition without trauma. Imagine if the iPhone were heroin. Would we be so casual…

Almost everything in history is "unprecedented in human experience". That's pretty much the defining feature of being a human, that our world is constantly changing (because we're changing it). A smartphone is just another distraction in a long line of man-made distractions that we've invented, worried about, and then adapted to. Oh man the headlines that exist from the past worrying about people reading newspapers o…

Those things were certainly novel and attractive.

But lets be honest - they weren't anywhere near the level of an instantly-available portable object you can keep in your pocket and pings you for attention all day and all night.

There's may be a threshold beyond what we can manage. A Polly-Anna attitude of "we've survived so far!" is not comforting nor convincing.

And the approach of "lets give ever-more-addictive devices to our children unrestricted until some provable damage occurs" is perhaps a negligent policy.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be true, if electronic gadgets were the same as previous obsessions. But they're different. They change from second to second, providing a level of stimulation unprecedented in human experience. It's possible we're not going to adapt well to this e-world. There's no reason to think an evolved ape has the wiring to make the transition without trauma. Imagine if the iPhone were heroin. Would we be so casual…

Kind of like how TV pictures change from second to second, or city life changes from second to second, or...well, heroin doesn't change from second to second, but it provides a dopamine hit that's even more powerful than things that do. We pretty casually dismiss the Opium Wars now.

Its portable. You can choose your drug with a phone - games, texting, facebook. And it pings and pings and won't let you get any respite. Its different in intensity from all those things that came before.

I just think it deserves some analysis - what's the maximum distracting addictive information rush we can support without becoming disfunctional or chronically obsessed? Isn't it worth finding out, before we give children unrestricted access?

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#403
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be true, if electronic gadgets were the same as previous obsessions. But they're different. They change from second to second, providing a level of stimulation unprecedented in human experience. It's possible we're not going to adapt well to this e-world. There's no reason to think an evolved ape has the wiring to make the transition without trauma. Imagine if the iPhone were heroin. Would we be so casual…

> Imagine if the iPhone were heroin. Ah yes. This is your brain. This is your brain on drugs. I remember when the tv ( aka idiot box ) was attacked for being addictive. > Would we be so casual in dismissing it? Who is casually dismissing it? There is an entire propaganda campaign against social media. From congress to news to netflix and on, ironically enough, social media itself. Every day we hear about how bad soci…

It was what the article was about. This 'drug' is portable, instantly accessible and actually pings you constantly for attention. It's like nothing that came before. And whitewashing it as 'more of the same' is disingenuous.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#404
post #87

Buried lede: > My daughter doesn’t return home from school until 6:30 pm and still has to eat, bathe, and get ready for bed. Perhaps it is not just the iPhone, but school taking up 100% of her time, energy, and attention that is preventing her from pursuing creative interests? As a homeschooling parent whose kids have been in school at times, I see this first hand. School is exhausting . Between rising unnaturally ea…

> school taking up 100% of her time, energy, and attention that is preventing her from pursuing creative interests?

This was the problem for me when I was a kid. I had limited time to play my favorite video games. So I spend whole days in school imagining and planning what to do in the game in order to trade school time for the game time in a very inefficient way, and all my life was optimized to make full use of my game time - even though I was not playing. Separating kids from their favorite activities don't usually work as expected.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#405
post #361
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My son was a curious kid, a geography nerd, and watched a lot of educational videos on YouTube. Got his phone and now is addicted. Is even going bad in school. Sure there is a pandemic, but we have a lot of fights here.

>Got his phone and now is addicted Isn't watching educational videos on YouTube exactly the thing most of us ( parents ) would want?

It seems more like he was watching educational videos on YouTube before getting a phone, and has since become addicted to other phone things?

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the difference is that as an adult you choose to be there. You can make arrangements that fit what you want. Kids don't have that option. They often don't even realize that they themselves might've put too much on their own plate and might not know how to handle it. They just don't burn out the same way adults do. As an aside, if school was preparation for adult life then it really should teach you to drive,…

> as an adult you choose to be there With the alternative frequently being homelessness. It's a lucky few (relatively speaking) who can freely switch jobs and pursue passions. Most people work simply so they can continue to have a home, food, water, heat...

You still have way more flexibility and choice. You can decide to work more, work less, find a new job etc. What you get out of it is different and perhaps you don't want to give up your lifestyle, but you can decide to do that. You have no such choices as a kid.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#407
post #87

Buried lede: > My daughter doesn’t return home from school until 6:30 pm and still has to eat, bathe, and get ready for bed. Perhaps it is not just the iPhone, but school taking up 100% of her time, energy, and attention that is preventing her from pursuing creative interests? As a homeschooling parent whose kids have been in school at times, I see this first hand. School is exhausting . Between rising unnaturally ea…

> Edit: I must admit I commented after reading only half the article (shame on me). It does in fact seem like her daughter has a phone-use problem. What I say above remains true, however.

Yes, one of the defining symptoms of addiction (to anything) is that it interferes with your normal relationships with others. Addicts see these relationships as hurdles to getting their fix and tend to withdraw from them as they get more and more addicted.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but I do this too. You can configure Screen Time on an iPhone. There you can limit the total time the device can be used each day. It's also possible to limit usage to certain apps, or block access to certain categories of apps, and allowing only certain people (e.g. family members) to be contacted or messaged. If your child has their own Apple ID, Screen Time works across any other Apple devices linked to th…

Exactly this. It's extremely effective, as Apple gives you a ton of constraints you can set: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201304 In my case, we've turned off all web access, have certain educational games available for a limited amount of time, and only allow outbound texts to grandma. It's extremely robust – most of the hacks I've read about (or heard from parents with older children!) involve trying to record…

Really got to applaud the lotion attack.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#409
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an almost 17 year old who doesn't want a smartphone. He plays Minecraft/KSP about 90 minutes each night. But he'd always, always accept an offer to do something else with me or someone else in the family. So I make sure, as his father, to make that offer sometimes. And I also feel fine if I'm feeling like a book or a movie or something else. Not all kids become [insert teenager cliches] upon the onset of teena…

How the hell did you manage this. Honestly what's your secret. I need to make sure my kids turn out this way. I want tech to augment their lives, not replace them (or destroy them).

Why do you think he somehow "managed" this? How your children act and what they want to do is, in many ways, beyond your control. Do you think of yourself like that? Like "I acted like X because my parents raised me like Y?"

I certainly don't.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#410

This is the reason we send our children to a Waldorf school. Most of the parents don't buy their kids phones or let them have unfettered, unsupervised access to the internet and devices. This means our kids are not desperate to fit in with the other kids. Our kids are very creative as a result and are constantly doing things and playing and have good social skills.

I had a friend that went to Waldorf school. All in all, he ended up not knowing anything and got such bad SAT scores he couldn't go to college. He was really upset, blaming his parents for ruining his life by sending him to a school in which you don't end up actually learning anything.
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