Ok Google: please publish your DKIM secret keys

If you run a campaign to make email repudiable, and make sure people should know email is repudiable, then emails will no longer be convincing evidence.

So if something does not provide a perfect guarantee, it's "nothing"? You realize that handwritten signatures on a paper contract do not provide a perfect guarantee either? Signatures can be forged. And the paper is not going to remain in perfect condition forever, at some point in the future the paper is going to decay. Does that mean we can never know anything about anything? No. Of course we can have evidence about events which occurred in the world, even if the evidence doesn't provide a 100% guarantee of something, indefinitely. For example, a handwritten signature on a paper can be imperfect evidence that the contract took place, or a DKIM signature on an email can be imperfect evidence that the email is not a forgery.

> You do realize that email is older than DKIM?

The original email spec doesn't provide any security against forgeries. The "sent from" field in email is about as secure as the "sent from" field in physical letters. The only reason why laypersons consider email to be non-repudiable is because of additional protocols like SPF and DKIM that were implemented after the original spec. Without these protocols email would be considered repudiable, which OP considers to be a preferrable outcome.

> And that commerce existed before emails?

Yes, and? I'm not claiming that all commerce would come to a halt immediately if this campaign for email repudiability was successful. Of course commerce would continue to exist. But the world would be worse off, not better. There would be slightly more disputes, and dishonest parties would increase their chances of defrauding honest parties.

> You don't need DKIM to solve the issues you've pointed out.

Are you alluding to hypothetical alternative protocols for authenticating contracts? If you can make the world move off from email, that's great! Email is horrible! But if you can't make people move away from email, you won't make the world a better place by making email less secure.

> Again: How many disputes like that have been resolved with DKIM?

How many? As in, you expect me to have statistics on it? Are we pretending that when people resolve disputes, they mark their disputes in some kind of global database that we can query for statistics? You're not making any sense.

> You really think that laypersons have any idea of what DKIM is?

The layperson doesn't have to understand the intricacies of email protocols, it's enough that they consider email to be non-repudiable. This is why a copy of an email typically suffices as "proof" of a contract. If you successfully run a campaign to make email repudiable, then laypersons will no longer consider email to be non-repudiable, and emails no longer suffice as "proof" of a contract. If you disagree with something I said here, can you specify which part it is exactly that you disagree with?

> You seem to be arguing that the world would be better with non-repudiable email.

Yes, the world is better off now, at a time when laypersons consider e-mail to be non-repudiable, compared to a hypothetical future where this is no longer the case.

> But then I ask how many disputes have been resolved with DKIM and you have no idea. So basically your argument has zero basis in reality.

So if I can't give the exact number of times that DKIM has helped in dispute resolution, then my argument "has zero basis in reality"? This doesn't make any sense. If I said that "the existence of courts prevents vigilantes", you could say the same thing: "well what's the exact number of times that the existence of courts has prevented vigilanteeism? ha! you don't know the exact number! your argument has zero basis in reality then." We could apply your logic to many other scenarios: what's the number of times that existence of guards has prevented prison breaks? What's the number of infections prevented by vaccines? We don't know the exact numbers for any of these things, and yet we can logicly deduce that courts prevent vigilantes, guards prevent prison breaks, vaccines prevent infections, and DKIM prevents breaking contracts.

> You're asking for every email user to have non-repudiation enforced unwillingly to them in every email they send so that someone maybe someday may solve some imaginary dispute with Amazon by using DKIM.

Laypersons already believe that emails have non-repudiation property. People are free to use secure messengers to communicate privately. When people choose to communicate with email, they are choosing non-repudiation over privacy. You are the one who is asking to change e-mail protocols so that they would work differently than people currently expect. I'm the one saying e-mail should work like people expect e-mail to work.

I'll ask again. WHO is guilty of "destroying evidence" in that case? Unless you can articulate that, you have no argument whatsoever that a criminal act has occurred.

Period.

End of discussion.

>You're not very bright. Concede that.

At least I understand that for a crime to be committed there has to be an entity (organization or person) who committed it. That only requires a grade school level of legal understanding. But given your insults, I'm beginning to understand that maybe that's just about the upper limit of your intellect.