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‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

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Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#221

Post by AntiImperialist »

scottlocklin wrote: post #133
AntiImperialist wrote: post #63

As great as free press and democracies are, they also come with huge weaknesses. Those make it easy for foreign propaganda to influence the public and hence run the countries from outside. Thanks to The Great Firewall and the CCP rule, China is mostly immune to foreign propaganda. At the same time, China is using a lot of effort to affect countries with democracy and free speech, like India and the U.S. China is obvi…

Anyone who actually use the excuse of "foreign interference" for totalitarian censorship basically basically doesn't believe in the concept of democracy. "Foreign interference" has been going on from day 0 in the United States. It very obviously got us into WW-1 (the British -a largely untold but very obvious info ops campaign for something that served no US national interest), it got us into the middle east (nothing…

"Foreign interference" has been going on from day 0 in the United States

Agree. Not as effective as today. But yes.

Anyone who actually use the excuse of "foreign interference" for totalitarian censorship basically basically doesn't believe in the concept of democracy.

Agree. I think Democracy has failed because the tools of propaganda have become very effective.

Democracy died in the U.S. a long time ago... the Deep State was formed and it had a monopoly on propaganda, not only for keeping the citizens in line but also using it to control many other countries. The major competitor was Soviet Union, which wasn't very successful for long. Fast forward to today, there are many countries which are powerful enough and have competitive tools for propaganda.

While many countries are well equipped for offence, only China has very good defense against it. If other countries don't take actions to strengthen their defense, it's going to be very difficult for them.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#222

Post by ttt0 »

ojbyrne wrote: post #181
paxys wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? It's the exact opposite. In the US sites like Facebook & Twitter routinely refuse to censor conservative content even if it is against their policies because they are afraid of pissing off Republicans in Congress. A "liberal" on Facebook calling for the beheading of a conservative politican would be banned (possibly even arrested) immediately. The opposite can and does happen every day, with no penalty. And all…

I think that the right has moved the Overton Window so much to the right that they see things that most of the world would see as mainstream (Black Lives Matter, Abortion, Medicare for All, Defund the Police, Anti-Fascism etc) as extreme.

That's not how the Overton Window works. The Overton Window says what kind of opinions are socially acceptable. If you describe those things are mainstream, they're by definition inside the Overton Window. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that you're more likely to be fired for being a nationalist rather than a communist, so that's another indicator that the Overton Window is actually on the left.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#223

Post by dalbasal »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #126
varispeed wrote: post #40

The problem is that we didn't teach people about manipulation techniques because that was governments' favourite tool to control the masses. Now that anybody can reach anyone with any information, bad actors use these techniques to control people to their advantage. Governments' are now in an awkward position - ramp up education in these areas and forever give up a tool that worked for ages, or censor the information…

>The problem is that we didn't teach people about manipulation techniques I don't know where you're from, but it's part of the Victorian (possibly Australian) curriculum for all year 12 students. And we still ended up with Rupert Murdoch.

I think we need to add "nobody ever talks about.." to the list of trope fallacies.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#224

Post by busterarm »

JoshuaDavid wrote: post #218
busterarm wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that the term itself comes from his movement, the "Fasces of Revolutionary Action", and that he coined the word fascism personally in 1919 (after the word "fascio"), I think at the very least he gets to be attributed the lions' share of it.

Newton can be credited as being substantially the inventor of Newtonian Physics. That doesn't make alchemy a sub-field of Newtonian Physics, despite the fact that Newton wrote numerous treatises on alchemy.

Or possibly that alchemy has nothing to do with motion and gravitation.

Chemistry isn't a sub-field of Physics either.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#225

Post by antris »

varispeed wrote: post #40

The problem is that we didn't teach people about manipulation techniques because that was governments' favourite tool to control the masses. Now that anybody can reach anyone with any information, bad actors use these techniques to control people to their advantage. Governments' are now in an awkward position - ramp up education in these areas and forever give up a tool that worked for ages, or censor the information…

It's a real shit situation. The fact that we cannot agree on facts in politics is truly frightening and I cannot see an easy way out of it.

Perhaps in 20-30 years we will see social media as something akin to smoking. Something super dangerous, addictive and a mind virus. That's my most optimist hope.

Around the time of Snowden leaks, I decided to cancel my Facebook, Instagram, etc. accounts. I am still a YouTube junkie, it's hard to give up. But right now I think that's my only "AI algorithm curated wormhole" type of content that I consume. Even partly doing a "social media diet" has significantly improved my well-being. I was really surprised to see how much my mentality changed from the experiment. Haven't looked back since.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#226

Post by systemvoltage »

babas wrote: post #101
vinni2 wrote: post #28

> ISPs in Norway are imposing what the study calls “extremely aggressive” blocking across a broader range of content, including human rights websites like Human Rights Watch and online dating sites like Match.com. I have no trouble accessing hrw.org and match.com in Norway. I wonder is it specific to some ISPs? I also couldn’t find any law that was passed to block certain pornogrpahic websites in Wikipedia [1] and I…

When I read that, I immediately dismissed the whole article. Both HRW and match.com are available on the 4/5 ISPs I have access to ATM. Home (Telenor), mobile (Telia), server host (domeneshop), my office (Telia, wired) and a customer network (Not sure about the downstream ISP). On the last one match.com is blocked by a firewall not the ISP. They should really check thier sources. My guess is that they tested on a net…

It could be a mistake, not an intentional lie.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#227

Post by sprayk »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #126
varispeed wrote: post #40

The problem is that we didn't teach people about manipulation techniques because that was governments' favourite tool to control the masses. Now that anybody can reach anyone with any information, bad actors use these techniques to control people to their advantage. Governments' are now in an awkward position - ramp up education in these areas and forever give up a tool that worked for ages, or censor the information…

>The problem is that we didn't teach people about manipulation techniques I don't know where you're from, but it's part of the Victorian (possibly Australian) curriculum for all year 12 students. And we still ended up with Rupert Murdoch.

I experienced similar topics in curriculum here in the US in English and history classes in middle/high school as well as the English class I took in college (part of the liberal arts requirement for basically every degree at my school).

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#228

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

tboyd47 wrote: post #114

It is not surprising that this would happen in a democratic state. Democracy is not necessarily friendly to individual rights and freedoms. If the majority of citizens want to take your freedom away, you have no recourse in a democratic society. What we recognize as freedoms and human rights are more appropriately associated with limited government, separation of powers, and republics. We often associate democracies…

Do you have a source of what specific stuff you're referring to? I want to read more and learn about some of that cause with sounds interesting to look at the US in that light.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#229

Post by Craighead »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #214
lettergram wrote: post #188

Of my past 10 posts on HN 6 have been flagged and removed by users. Of those, many made it to the front page with 10+ votes. I contacted Dang and he was clear it was users censoring it, further that some users were also "vouching" for my posts. It's to the point, people don't want to know. I feel I'm fairly even handed in my discussion. Here's a couple of my posts (who knows if I'll get flagged): - Public Safety Anno…

It's hopeless here. Any perceived criticism of Biden/Democratic Party is instantly downvoted/flagged. It's sad to see how far HN has fallen.

You should read the rules

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#230

Post by tsimionescu »

scottlocklin wrote: post #133
AntiImperialist wrote: post #63

As great as free press and democracies are, they also come with huge weaknesses. Those make it easy for foreign propaganda to influence the public and hence run the countries from outside. Thanks to The Great Firewall and the CCP rule, China is mostly immune to foreign propaganda. At the same time, China is using a lot of effort to affect countries with democracy and free speech, like India and the U.S. China is obvi…

Anyone who actually use the excuse of "foreign interference" for totalitarian censorship basically basically doesn't believe in the concept of democracy. "Foreign interference" has been going on from day 0 in the United States. It very obviously got us into WW-1 (the British -a largely untold but very obvious info ops campaign for something that served no US national interest), it got us into the middle east (nothing…

This doesn't take away too much from your general point, which I agree with, but I think this is important to mention in itself:

> ["foreign interference"] fairly obviously got us our "free trade" policies which gutted the US manufacturing capabilities [...] (thanks, China).

'free trade' is definitely not a product of outside interference, it is a product of American company owners' interests - the easier it is to own manufacturing plants in other countries without giving up your IP (the key items of most 'free trade' agreements), the easier it becomes for corporations to manufacture everything where labor is cheapest.

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