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My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

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Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, so much of this sounded familiar to me ... but from my own teenage years. My parents were appalled at the amount of time I was spending at a MS-DOS PC (not only playing games but also learning programming). So I'd say that no, it's not that phones are like crack. There seems to be a disconnect on the parent's expectations when children discover the possibilities of a technology that's unfamiliar to them. In…

Now is really not like back then. I was like you, spending inordinate amounts of time with computers during my teenage years. But back then, I was learning useful skills from it. The computer I owned had almost no games for it. All you could do was program it in either basic or assembly. Move forward 15 years, my kid who owned a PC from around age 10 was never interested in using it as anything but an entertainment p…

I agree the vast majority of computer users do not get those benefits, since their main computer is their phone. Phones do not lend themselves to learning about computers, they provide sterile environments that try to get you to forget its a computer in the first place and scroll facebook instead.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#312
post #239

> I realize with horror that she’s spent nine hours on the phone that day. She was only awake at 11. > My daughter doesn’t make collages or jewelry or sew anymore. A child who used to read in the bath won’t pick up a book unless threatened with the loss of her phone. > Getting her to make a card for a family member — something she once did for fun — is like getting her to clean her room > Yet still, each day is a bat…

Honestly, so much of this sounded familiar to me ... but from my own teenage years. My parents were appalled at the amount of time I was spending at a MS-DOS PC (not only playing games but also learning programming). So I'd say that no, it's not that phones are like crack. There seems to be a disconnect on the parent's expectations when children discover the possibilities of a technology that's unfamiliar to them. In…

> not only playing games but also learning programming

I think the basic question is: Are you consumer or producer? When you program or using excel or writing a blog posts, you grow as a person. Apps can be both, so It's more about the ratio. You can try to make nice & creative photos for your Instagram profile or just browse and see what others are up to.

The problem is that kids will tell you that they will produce and learn, but then spend most of the time consuming, which will slowly kills their creativity.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#313

A lot of the comments here seem to be saying that (1) kids getting addicted to phones is no different than getting addicted to TV, books, etc, and that this is just the latest iteration of a complaint parents have had for generations and (2) this person is a bad parent. I used to agree with (1), but lately I'm inclined to think that this time, it really is different. Very different. And the primary reason is that unl…

> thousands of engineers observing realtime metrics to make small tweaks to make you use something just a little bit longer.

As one of the thousands of engineers dedicated to making you use your consumer electronics a little bit more: it's really easy to defeat my work. You make a conscious decision not to use the product, you catch yourself using it, you stop. Do it for about a month and you've broken the habit. That's why we look at metrics like MAUs and L28s. There is basically nothing I can do about a user who actively doesn't want to use the product; we basically throw up our hands and say "Not our target market."

The reason my job exists is because hundreds of millions of people don't think like that, and don't have any conscious opinion one way or another about my product. It's those users we're trying to influence, the ones who are basically ambivalent, allocate their time based on emotion, and don't have any strong beliefs one way or another about what they should be spending their time on or how they want their life to look. There are enough of them that this market is worth billions, but everything I do - all the engagement work and instant gratification and positioning subtle hints in the UI - is about influencing the people who don't care one way or another. If that is not you - if you have actively made a conscious choice what you want to spend your time on, and it's not watching TV more - you won't even see my product. (It was actually pretty awkward when I took my job, because I work on TVs but watch basically none and didn't even own a TV beforehand.)

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#314

Legos also harm creativity. Perfection also harms creativity. In fact there was a economic theorist who claimed that by introducing limitations in a system you also introduce entrepreneurship and innovation.

Legos? Their innate limitation as simple bricks that can be shaped into many things is what makes them creative in my opinion. Though I suspect what you may be hinting at. If kids have no toys they'd use their imagination more or make their own toys.

Legos constrain creativity to simple objects that get stuck together. The creativity is not applicable in the real world and hurts imagination of the world that exists. Yes, what you said.

And now after saying all that I realize when comparisons are made of US to developing countries the same harbingers to creativity and innovation appear where if a situation in America can be resolved through a particular means, the lack of such means become an obstacle to the similar rise of developing countries.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#315
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you - when a book is down, a TV is off or a console is off, it doesn't ping you and light up to gain your attention. Sure, as kids we watched a lot of TV, but when it was time to turn it off we didn't get a sound to tell us someone "Liked" your photo. As you said, these aren't bi-directional. I think the hardest thing for this parent was balancing what was right for their child (and they seemed to be con…

IDK. I mean you're right, of course, but I remember getting engrossed in books to the point where I lost sleep, or delayed doing other important things because I either could not put it down or I was drawn back to it. This happened as a teen and as a young adult, not so much lately but I really don't read books nearly as much as I used to.

I was also an avid reader growing up and spent many nights under the covers with a flashlight.

I think the big difference is the adaptivity of the phone. Books don't figure out what personally engrosses you and tweak the rest of the book so you can't put it down. That feels too powerful IMO.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#316
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you happy? I missed so many experiences sitting in front of the computer all day, it didn’t really get me any further than if I had taken a more modest interest. YouTube and Minecraft and these digital realities are fake realities. Whatever happiness they provide is temporary and short lived. It took me until my 30s to realize this and now I’m starting all over again. Digital stuff is fine in moderation, but I wi…

I have an almost 17 year old who doesn't want a smartphone. He plays Minecraft/KSP about 90 minutes each night. But he'd always, always accept an offer to do something else with me or someone else in the family. So I make sure, as his father, to make that offer sometimes. And I also feel fine if I'm feeling like a book or a movie or something else. Not all kids become [insert teenager cliches] upon the onset of teena…

I spent a year of my starting teenage years tinkering with my android phone. Custom ROM and stuff.

Then I got a better PC and spent time trying to make website to earn money because everyone was doing it.

I failed. AdSense didn't pay me anything. I realized it was more profitable to make a blog on how to make money online than go try if yourself.

I built my first gaming rig. Played few games and got bored after a few months.

I ended up watching death note on YouTube through recommendations.

Finished 500+ anime within a year. It was the best past time after school.

Got bored of that. This time, I though of making money using software. Worked with WordPress, earned some cash fixing people's site and optimizing them by removing useless plugins, adding yoast SEO, improving cache and moving people from shared hosting on GoDaddy.

I started to tinker with PHP code and themes like Divi, adata. Then I wanted to build a CMS. Looked up stuff and it felt complicated so after trying for a few weeks, dropped the idea.

Now I got into novels and manga because I was running out of anime. Probably 700+ or so titles. Enjoyed that for a bit. Finished Chinese, russian, Japanese, etc light novels using Google translate. It was fun. I was addicted.

Now something clicked again and I purchased courses on udemy for 90% discount (yeah it is always discounted). Finally, I knew enough programming after few weeks to create a CMS. I did that but it turned pretty poor compared to WordPress.

Joined an online non-profit therapy group. Listened to people and gave advice...in retrospect, k shouldn't have done that.

Joined discord, spent time there and well learnt more about weird internet cultures and spheres.

Started to get worried about future. Spent time researching health insurance, FIRE, investment and saving strategies. Opened broker account on few online sites using my dad's identity. Landed on r/wsb. Spent few weeks researching and stalking people there. Concluded it was nothing more than gambling. I started buying equity. Built a decent portfolio. Then diversified with Forex and SIP index fund.

Roughly more or less how I spent my teenage years. There are lot of other small and things I did but will be too personal.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#317

A lot of the comments here seem to be saying that (1) kids getting addicted to phones is no different than getting addicted to TV, books, etc, and that this is just the latest iteration of a complaint parents have had for generations and (2) this person is a bad parent. I used to agree with (1), but lately I'm inclined to think that this time, it really is different. Very different. And the primary reason is that unl…

I was 100% convinced my kids won't get these devices until their very late teens, when I saw how my less than 1 year old reacted to the phones my wife and I use. Because his reaction is pure instinct, the dopamine response just to the colors and brightness was shocking. We now have to work HARD to keep these devices away from him. Part of it, of course, is he observes how much attention we pay them but his eyes defin…

I've babysat for friends with a 3 and 5 yr old, and it is phenomenal how you could grab their attention (and distract from any ailment they had a second earlier) by showing them youtube videos of fire engines with sirens.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#318
post #242

This thread exercising various mental gymnastics to find other causes for her behavior honestly reminds me of a bunch of climate change deniers arguing why human activity has nothing to do with atmospheric heating. Being cautious with assuming causations is usually a good idea - but it falls flat when we know the causal chains that are at work. In the case of climate change, we know for a fact that humanity is releas…

This comment exercising various mental gymnastics to find nefarious causes for a teenager's changing personality...

Every generation of parents thinks their kid is the smartest and then they become teenagers and suddenly they're moody and want to do things that their parents don't approve of. That's the basic fact underlying this. Any argument you make about kids changing when they become teenagers needs to have this realization at its core. Once you realize that, then you can start to make judgements about whether or not their behavior is cause for alarm or not.

Yes apps are addictive, because they're designed that way. But I can tell you what else is designed to be addictive: literally everything. Do you think Doritos taste the way they do by accident? They don't fall off the Dorito tree tasting like that. Or what about the chip companies that has the slogan "betcha can't eat just one" or "once you pop, the fun don't stop"? Likewise, why do TV shows and movies never line up with reality, even if they're based on a true story? Because they were designed to be more interesting than reality. Why do episodes always end on a cliff-hanger, or people leaving a theater say "man they really set that up for a sequel"? Because it was designed to be addictive. Why do most songs last about three minutes and have two verses and two repetitions of the chorus? Because the producer knows that's the most addictive way to write a song.

I mean literally everything: Why is bread and milk at the back of a grocery store? Because they know you're going to buy that anyway, and if it's at the back, you'll need to walk past a whole bunch of other things that are all designed to be addictive, with colorful marketing signs designed to maximize engagement. Why do automakers make cars with smooth gear changes and plush leather seats and feature-filled entertainment consoles and a jillion speakers? Because that keeps people happier in their car and more likely to buy another one of those cars in the future. Why do people love dogs? Because humans purposefully designed wolves into the perfect human companion, and everything about a dog was designed to increase user retention and engagement. Why does cola have caffeine added to it? Because caffeine is addictive. There is literally no other reason.

"It's designed to be addictive" isn't an excuse, because everything is designed to be addictive. So start with "my child is turning into a teenager and teenagers like different things than children" and then subtract "everything is designed to be addictive" from your reasons. How do you talk to your children when they want more Pringles or a(nother) dog or to stay up late watching TV, or when they're upset that their first car doesn't have Bluetooth audio? I'll bet this author wouldn't write an article shaming their kids for that.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#319
post #275

I started reading this article really really wanting to agree, but ended up thinking that a large part of the problem here is that the parent is not making enough effort to understand her child. The parent says "my daughter was a creative genius, and then..." as if to imply that she isn't any more. But it sure sounds like she has creative pursuits to me: * "She wants Roblox. All the kids have it, and it seems harmles…

> It's such a shame to me that the article ends with a note about how the parent will try to convince themselves that creating tiktok videos is creative. What?!? Creating videos isn't creative?? Of course it is! You should be encouraging and reveling in this sort of behavior! My seven year old runs around with my old iPhone 5. We've locked it down to essentially be nothing more than a camera, but she'll still make vi…

Hi - how did you lock down your kids iPhone? Am more of an android man but will be getting a refurbed iPhone 7 for my daughter (apparently they are "better" than Samsung)

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#320
post #275

I started reading this article really really wanting to agree, but ended up thinking that a large part of the problem here is that the parent is not making enough effort to understand her child. The parent says "my daughter was a creative genius, and then..." as if to imply that she isn't any more. But it sure sounds like she has creative pursuits to me: * "She wants Roblox. All the kids have it, and it seems harmles…

> It's such a shame to me that the article ends with a note about how the parent will try to convince themselves that creating tiktok videos is creative. What?!? Creating videos isn't creative?? Of course it is! You should be encouraging and reveling in this sort of behavior! My seven year old runs around with my old iPhone 5. We've locked it down to essentially be nothing more than a camera, but she'll still make vi…

> Of course it is!

No, definitely not “of course”. Creativity is not defined by the technology or even the result, but is a... well, property of a process. I - personally - can snap a video without being creative at all, and the video may happen to be good. Like how a talking parrot can drop a joke at an appropriate moment, without understanding it at all ;)

It all really depends on what goes in one’s head as they do something.

That is - to recognize if the kid (or whoever, age does not matter here) is creative just talk to them and learn what the heck are they thinking. Like asking to share what’s their passion for that hobby, or teach how they do it - even the most basic replies would quite probably involve some descriptions of the logical processes running in one’s head.

(I do not mean to argue if your kid having a passion for recording videos is creative or not. Just saying that it’s not universally applicable “of course”.)

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