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‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

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Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#61

Post by cogman10 »

I have to wondered how we "fix" our current internet situation.

On the one hand, censorship appears to be appealing to stop the tide of misinformation. Anti-vaxx garbage is a prime example of something that should be censored into oblivion. It is actively harmful to the public.

But, on the other hand, who pulls the levers of censorship is equally terrifying. I don't want a world where a dissenting opinion is censored because it doesn't fall in line with whoevers ideology. For example, Chinese censorship of the Tiananmen square incident.

How on earth can we fix this? Social media has created a world of bubbles. Some of which are FILLED TO THE BRIM with misinformation. Penetrating those bubbles is nearly impossible. They've always sort of existed, yet somehow it feels like they are more extreme now-a-days.

Just musing. I really don't have a solution to this but am certainly interest to hear any proposals.

Perhaps the solution is really as simple as better public education?

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#62

Post by fartcannon »

sebmellen wrote: post #4

There is a great tool called OONI (the Open Observatory of Network Interference) that you can use to test your own network and see if commonly censored sites are censored for you. See https://ooni.org/ and https://ooni.org/install/ .

Comforting to note that this software is F/OSS. Thank you.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#63

Post by AntiImperialist »

As great as free press and democracies are, they also come with huge weaknesses. Those make it easy for foreign propaganda to influence the public and hence run the countries from outside.

Thanks to The Great Firewall and the CCP rule, China is mostly immune to foreign propaganda. At the same time, China is using a lot of effort to affect countries with democracy and free speech, like India and the U.S.

China is obviously not alone in using propaganda to influence the politics of other countries. All big countries and corporations use it in their countries of interest all the time... in fact, they have been doing it for much longer. Everything from bribes to politicians to "human rights organizations", "foreign aid organizations" to social causes in universities... everything is used to undermine national interests and put pawns for outside powers in governments.

Citizens of many democratic nations have been feeling this for a very long time... which explains nationalist sentiments rising in many countries... but that's another story.

China is in a unique position in that it limits or prohibits foreign press, foreign media, foreign internet services, foreign aid organizations, human rights organizations... i.e. anything and everything that it can to stop foreign influence... but it uses a lot of those against its rivals.

The only defense against it is following China's footsteps. India has recently banned several Chinese apps and websites. It has also kicked out Amnesty International. Other countries will have to do the same if they want to protect their national interests.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#64

Post by leanstartupnoob »

artursapek wrote: post #59
war1025 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interesting thing about this is that nationalism is in general associated with right-leaning politics, and the censorship is far and away being applied more aggressively to those very same right-leaning nationalist groups. You would be hard pressed to find liberal / progressive content being censored online.

Exactly. There's nothing "nationalist" about the type of censorship we're seeing on Twitter. If anything it's the opposite.

Which government agency is censoring Twitter?

Conservatives and libertarians LOVE to bleat about property rights, but they can't handle it when private parties won't provide free advertising for right-wing conspiracies.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#65

Post by jml7c5 »

bootcampwhere wrote: post #6

Social media like Reddit has stumbled upon the perfect way to censor unprofitable or anti-state content. Superficially give moderation to users, then continually ban users when other users complain about them. In this way with just a few dozen accounts anyone can control the narrative in their niche while Reddit claims they have no control. Recently an independent chinese reporter has been banned from reddit using th…

Did you mean to post that link? It doesn't give any information on a reporter being banned from reddit.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#66

Post by newacct583 »

busterarm wrote: post #47
varispeed wrote: post #40

The problem is that we didn't teach people about manipulation techniques because that was governments' favourite tool to control the masses. Now that anybody can reach anyone with any information, bad actors use these techniques to control people to their advantage. Governments' are now in an awkward position - ramp up education in these areas and forever give up a tool that worked for ages, or censor the information…

It's worse than that. We're seeing the teaming up of governments and giant corporations to control the narrative and tell people what's true and what isn't. It's the literal definition of fascism. And you see it being championed by people as defending against "the greatest threat to our democracy".

> We're seeing the teaming up of governments and giant corporations to control the narrative and tell people what's true and what isn't.

That seems like a claim that needs some examples. By itself it's hard to take seriously. Which governments and which corporations are driving which narrative, exactly?

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#67

Post by cambalache »

dragonwriter wrote: post #53
cambalache wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let the laws and courts determine that. Not Mark Zuckerberg or Jack Dorsey.

> Let the laws and courts determine that. Not Mark Zuckerberg or Jack Dorsey. So, we should rely on state censorship in preference to the free marketplace of ideas competing for private support to relay them?

Yes, do you want the free market to decide who should or should not be killed?

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#68

Post by stale2002 »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #55
cambalache wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let the laws and courts determine that. Not Mark Zuckerberg or Jack Dorsey.

By wanting to use legal measures to force publishers to carry certain speech, you're not only drastically limiting the organizations' own free speech rights, but very quickly opening up a short path to punishing those who refuse to carry certain messages. Another word for that is (literally) propaganda. This whole movement of people begging the government to prevent companies from curating their content, under the gu…

Do you think it is some huge infringement that phone companies are required to follow common carrier laws?

Common carrier laws are pretty uncontroversial. Those existing laws could be updated to include communication networks that are more relevant in the modern day.

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#69

Post by r00fus »

war1025 wrote: post #51
paxys wrote: post #24

Fits well with the current wave of authoritarianism/nationalism that has taken root all over the world. A free and open internet represents everything that a government that wishes complete control over its people would be afraid of.

The interesting thing about this is that nationalism is in general associated with right-leaning politics, and the censorship is far and away being applied more aggressively to those very same right-leaning nationalist groups. You would be hard pressed to find liberal / progressive content being censored online.

From the article: > "Poland blocked human rights sites; India same-sex dating sites"

Clearly that's the wheelhouse of the right-leaning national groups, right? Oh, maybe not. Or maybe it's the rightwing nationalist governments cracking down on disadvantaged groups?

Re: ‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the world’s democracies

#70

Post by tehjoker »

AntiImperialist wrote: post #63

As great as free press and democracies are, they also come with huge weaknesses. Those make it easy for foreign propaganda to influence the public and hence run the countries from outside. Thanks to The Great Firewall and the CCP rule, China is mostly immune to foreign propaganda. At the same time, China is using a lot of effort to affect countries with democracy and free speech, like India and the U.S. China is obvi…

Seeing free speech as an impediment to nationalist competition is rich. Nationalist competition appears to corrode every civil liberty and thing that makes life worth living that we have. What if we had international cooperation instead of a death match? I guess certain business people would not make as much money.
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