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Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

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Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#521

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

heavyset_go wrote: post #503
pja wrote: post #173

I’m seeing a lot of positive comments on HN about this: to me it seems to be purely a cynical piece of PR on Apple’s part. They hope to significantly reduce the pressure on politicians to take a close look at their App store practices by significantly reducing the absolute number of developers suffering the full impact whilst taking the minimum possible hit to their revenue. This has nothing to do with “doing the rig…

> Apple / Google’s 30% take is the anti-competitive elephant in the room here, not a few crumbs thrown to small developers. It's not just the rate that's anti-competitive, it's that these two companies have stifled competition in mobile app distribution for over a decade now. There is no viable competition in this space because Google and Apple never allowed for real competitors to the App Store and Play Store to exi…

It's not just about distribution. What about allowing payments through stripe or paypal or any other payment processor?

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#523

Post by medhir »

The core problem here is that Apple is still disallowing users from side-loading / installing iOS apps from outside of the official App Store.

My question: what is stopping us from demanding a legislative solution that requires Apple to open up the iOS platform to allow installation of apps outside its sanctioned ecosystem?

With ARM Macs now on the market, the hardware architecture / software differences between their mobile and desktop platforms is becoming smaller and smaller. The argument that mobile devices should be treated differently from any other general computing device has always been weird. But now the disparity is now ever more glaring given how similar iPhones, iPads, and Macs have become. We should be demanding openness and the right to modify software as the end user sees fit. This does not preclude users looking for a more secure experience to continue exclusively loading apps from the App Store.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#525

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

pietroq wrote: post #485
pja wrote: post #173

I’m seeing a lot of positive comments on HN about this: to me it seems to be purely a cynical piece of PR on Apple’s part. They hope to significantly reduce the pressure on politicians to take a close look at their App store practices by significantly reducing the absolute number of developers suffering the full impact whilst taking the minimum possible hit to their revenue. This has nothing to do with “doing the rig…

In the nineties (1990-1999) we had a distribution deal in the USA with the PowerUp! catalog for a software product that moved a few millions of copies. Of the $24.99 sticker price we received something like $0.80 and that was an USA-only deal. Giving 30% for a worldwide deal when the distributor takes care of all the billing and taxing and accounting and distribution is the deal of the century.

But they don't need to take care of billing, taxing, and accounting. Stripe does that well. PayPal. Many others. Open it to competition. Decouple payments from the distribution (appstore).

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#526

Post by heavyset_go »

breakfastduck wrote: post #31
saagarjha wrote: post #4

This is good for smaller developers, but it doesn't really seem to solve the actual problem? All the people who are willing to go to war with Apple and have teeth are making way more than that…

Yes but many of the larger players who are willing to go to war use the 'its not fair on smaller developers' argument against them. This really slaps down the ability to use that.

No it doesn't. Apple and Google have stood on the neck of the mobile app distribution market for over a decade, and small developers have suffered for it. This change doesn't address the problem at all.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#527

Post by birdyrooster »

bigbubba wrote: post #487
enos_feedler wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great. So if I kill someone on my walk to the public pool to save a drowning child I am not a murderer.

Have you chosen the most heinous crime you can think of for this goofy analogy, in hopes the immorality of murder would tarnish Tim Sweeney by association?

Probably just reduction ad absurdum. But I think about this every time I make one whether this rhetoric and is doing as you say. At the very least it has the smell of bias, which could make the listener believe you were trying to slander.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#528

Post by heavyset_go »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #521
heavyset_go wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple / Google’s 30% take is the anti-competitive elephant in the room here, not a few crumbs thrown to small developers. It's not just the rate that's anti-competitive, it's that these two companies have stifled competition in mobile app distribution for over a decade now. There is no viable competition in this space because Google and Apple never allowed for real competitors to the App Store and Play Store to exi…

It's not just about distribution. What about allowing payments through stripe or paypal or any other payment processor?

Good point, and I agree. Developers and users should have the freedom to use the payment processors of their liking, without having their mobile operating system's vendor deciding for them.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#529

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

zaroth wrote: post #456
ethbr0 wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the hypothetical characteristics of an anti-competitive app store market, to you? I.e. what would you look at and say "That's anti-competitive"?

There's almost a infinite number of things they could do that would be illegal that you might also call 'anti-competitive'. IMO, as long as there are viable competitors to Apple, and as long as Apple is not colluding with its competitors, Apple should be able to implement any lawful policy on its own device that it chooses. Apple can't violate its existing contracts with its customers or developers (e.g. threatening…

Decouple payments/subscriptions from distribution (AppStore). Allow us to pay using Stripe, PayPal, Amazon Payments, Google Pay, Apple Pay, or any of a host of other payment processors: the developer can choose his own payment platform, just like in the rest of the world outside of the iPhone.

That's a good first step towards competition that would allow Apple to keep the AppStore exclusivity -- for now.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#530

Post by whimsicalism »

zaroth wrote: post #520
whimsicalism wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anti-trust only applies if there’s a finding that Apple is a monopoly. The jury, so to speak, is still out. Wrong again, you can violate anti-competition law without being a monopoly. You're correct that it hasn't been decided in a court of law. I'm saying that I think they are engaging in anti-competitive behavior, you are saying "actually it is okay because they haven't been judged to engage in anti-competitive b…

That’s not what I’m saying. The case law on this is not as definitive as you are claiming. I don’t think their behavior is illegally anti-competitive. Sure, you can say that not supporting a specific 3rd party application (e.g. an App Store) on your device is “anti-competitive” but obviously not illegally so for any business. Behavior which is totally legal can become illegal in a monopoly situation.

Dude, you're the one who said

> Their device, their decision. The consumer gets to decide if they like it or not.

and now you're telling me that the case law isn't definitive?

That's my whole point - you're making strong assertions as if they are the way the law works, when they are just your personal opinion on how things ought to work. Numerous decisions in the past have required companies to change how they do things on their devices. I'm not saying the case will be decided against Apple.

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