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Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

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Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#491

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This news doesn't mean people shouldn't continue to put pressure on Apple and legislators to address the core issue (app store competition), but it's still really good news for small developers. It should also solidly put down all of the arguments we were seeing about whether indie devs and lawsuits putting pressure on Apple and legislators are at all worthwhile. A drop in app fees by 15% is a substantial win, and th…

Solidly? Not really. Still believe the Epic and Apple fight is all about Tim Sweeney being a greedy business man. Zero proof this 15% reduction has anything to do with pressure from that legal battle. Apple has made rev share changes in the past unprovoked (like 15% for sustained subs). How long do you think this change was in the works for? If this change was a response that’s great. But I would bet in that case App…

> Tim Sweeney being a greedy business man.

Not really relevant to what we're talking about.

> Apple has made rev share changes in the past unprovoked (like 15% for sustained subs)

That wasn't an unprovoked change, it was an olive branch to companies like Amazon that were pressuring Apple for more attractive terms.

> But I would bet in that case Apple did it to take wind out of Epic’s sails around standing up for little devs.

Right, that's what I said. Apple is facing pressure from Epic, it's getting bad PR in press releases from other large companies like Microsoft, indie devs are starting to get mad, and legislators are starting to float ideas about antitrust.

Apple is in a position where they need a positive PR push about their app store policies; they need to be able to hit back at the negative press and claim that they're offering more attractive terms than the competition. They're in that position because the negative pressure is working; it's forcing them to respond.

> Zero proof this 15% reduction has anything to do with pressure from that legal battle.

Short of email leaks or Apple publicly admitting that they're doing this to take public pressure off of their store policies, what would convince you that these changes are related to the current legal battle(s) they're facing?

My take is that we've seen this happen multiple times with multiple companies. Steam went through the same process with Epic: they got slammed by publishers for doing very little work in courting them, and as a result, they changed some of their terms to be more attractive to large studios. Microsoft originally ported IE to Macs to help try and rein in suspicions that they were trying to turn the web into a Windows only platform. Apple's recent review process overhauls are minor concessions to try and get people to stop talking about the negative experiences that publishers like Basecamp have had with opaque rules and rejections.

At some point, when you look at the broader industry, you start to see patterns, and those patterns are that broad, uniform negative press and lawsuits are often (but not always) effective tools when it comes to forcing companies to at least make small concessions on their policies. I think it's very reasonable to look at this change as an indication that Apple is scared of antitrust and thinks that it is possible that further antitrust efforts might succeed.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solidly? Not really. Still believe the Epic and Apple fight is all about Tim Sweeney being a greedy business man. Zero proof this 15% reduction has anything to do with pressure from that legal battle. Apple has made rev share changes in the past unprovoked (like 15% for sustained subs). How long do you think this change was in the works for? If this change was a response that’s great. But I would bet in that case App…

>is all about Tim Sweeney being a greedy business man Tim Sweeney provides one of the most advanced game engine technologies in the world completely for free for all revenue under 1 million. After 1 million you pay 5% on revenue over that, if your game makes $1,200,000 you pay Tim Sweeney $10,000. If you make 2 games and both games equally make 600K you pay Sweeney nothing. It's definitely a business but not sure "gr…

You're replying in a comment thread about how offering lower rates to small devs is a cynical move that hopes to buy them off for good PR.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#493

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The greed comes from how he puts his users and shareholders in harm’s way in an effort to reduce his bill with Apple.

Tim Sweeney is Epic's majority shareholder, so if you believe his actions were harmful to shareholders, doesn't that contract your stance that he was motivated by greed?

More than 90% of Epic is owned by Sweeney and TenCent. No other shareholders are significant.

TenCent controls Epic’s access to the Chinese market.

Together, they decided to put Epic’s customers in harms way.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#494
post #457

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You’re welcome to use App Store apps... I don’t see the problem. Safari PWAs protect your privacy better than native apps, because Safari trusts no one. The App Store review process is trying to find a malicious needle in a haystack because iOS by default trusts native apps more than it should, due to the existence of that nebulous review process. Apple is slowly locking down native apps with each successive iOS vers…

You make good points and I've learned something about PWA's, thanks. You also acknowledge that it's in Apple's interest to push native, which is absolutely true. The only thing I would disagree with is that you think "Apple just needs to give PWA developers [...]" when Apple does not "need" to do such a thing at all. This isn't just for the cut Apple takes from App Store sales. It's also about differentiating their o…

> You make good points and I've learned something about PWA's, thanks. You also acknowledge that it's in Apple's interest to push native, which is absolutely true. The only thing I would disagree with is that you think "Apple just needs to give PWA developers [...]" when Apple does not "need" to do such a thing at all.

Your whole comment is predicated on the interpretation of one word. Apple just needs to support push notifications for PWAs if they want to make PWAs useful and competitive, and it would be helpful for Apple in the antitrust battles that they seem to be facing. That's what I meant by "need". Previously, Apple also needed to add offline support, but they eventually did... so now that isn't a "need" for PWAs to be useful and competitive, even if Apple's offline support for PWAs is limited.

Apple doesn't "need" to implement it from whatever abstract interpretation of the word "need" that you're using... I'm not saying Apple will starve to death if they don't implement it -- it isn't a fundamental business "need" that they currently have.

They should do it, and I really want them to do it.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solidly? Not really. Still believe the Epic and Apple fight is all about Tim Sweeney being a greedy business man. Zero proof this 15% reduction has anything to do with pressure from that legal battle. Apple has made rev share changes in the past unprovoked (like 15% for sustained subs). How long do you think this change was in the works for? If this change was a response that’s great. But I would bet in that case App…

> Apple just showed they cared about them in a single change. Apple just showed they care about their image. If they really cared about small devs, they can allow third-party app stores or platforms like Epic's, which would really help developers by bringing down processing costs.

If bringing down processing costs is the issue, Apple just did that.

Allowing multiple stores would increase costs doe small developers, because of the overhead of dealing with many stores and many sets of rules.

Any cost saving would disappear into one or two levels of middlemen, otherwise known as publishing companies.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#496

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Great. So if I kill someone on my walk to the public pool to save a drowning child I am not a murderer.

Have you chosen the most heinous crime you can think of for this goofy analogy, in hopes the immorality of murder would tarnish Tim Sweeney by association?

Maybe subconsciously. I wish I could give my brain credit for it.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#497
post #362
post #342

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Which just goes to show how Google’s and Apple’s investment of tens of billions of dollars building out their respective ecosystem presents a tremendous opportunity to developers. Amazon made a half-hearted effort to compete in the space and the result is “less than 2%” in your case.

> tens of billions of dollars building out their respective ecosystem presents a tremendous opportunity to developers That's... one way to look at it. Another way is that they'd be spending even more if there were more healthy competition in the alternative app store market. Amazon is incentived to run an Android app store now, in the same way Microsoft was incentivized to maintain an ARM build of Windows: it's not a…

If there was competition in the App Store market, I’d have to deal with the overhead of dealing with publishing companies.

My apps would have to be designed to comply with all of the rules of all of the stores.

No thanks.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The greed comes from how he puts his users and shareholders in harm’s way in an effort to reduce his bill with Apple.

Tim Sweeney is Epic's majority shareholder, so if you believe his actions were harmful to shareholders, doesn't that contract your stance that he was motivated by greed?

Greed can motivate you to make a stupid move that ultimately harms you and others. That’s what is happening here.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#499

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Just because it is something YOU want doesn't mean we ALL want it. I appreciate Apple's review of apps and their store policies. While no human endeavor is perfect it is at least an attempt to keep their platform more secure, safer for kids, higher quality, and more trustworthy. Opening up the platform to other app stores means they have less control over the experience on their platform it opens more avenues for mal…

Why are Apple users so quick to recommend me Android when I point out this particular flaw with iOS? And yes, I do consider distrusting the owner's software installation preferences to be a flaw, especially when Apple is certainly capable of maintaining a robust and safe third-party distribution ecosystem on macOS. The Mac isn't demonstrably less secure because you have a sanctioned way to install Steam onto it. Like…

The Mac is demonstrably less secure than iOS, and there is much less incentive for bad actors to target the Mac because of its tiny market share.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#500
post #360

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> purely a cynical piece of PR Well, this is a big change to a core part of their App Store business model. It’s hard to reduce that to a PR move. Consider the revenue at stake here.

The revenue at stake for apple is likely almost nothing. As soon as a company (not app) makes over 1 million in purchases via apple, then they start paying the full amount. So, apple is losing 50% of the revenue from companies that dont make at least that much. Which is small potatoes to apple.

According to this App Store revenue is around $50B and developers affected by this[1] make ~5% of that revenue, or around $2.5B Cutting that in half, we're talking $1B+.

Indeed, that's small potatoes for Apple. But then, everything is small potatoes compared to iPhone sales.

But far, far bigger than even a big PR stunt. Orders of magnitude bigger.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/18/21572302/apple-app-store...

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