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"Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

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Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#351

Post by bumby »

aeternum wrote: post #312
claudiulodro wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You want to pay $2 dollars for milk, instead of $20? That's thanks to competition between companies. It's not though. "The support granted to U.S dairy producers represented approximately [...] 73% of the farmers' marketplace revenue. USDA data also reveals that US dairy farmers operate at a loss, and have a cost of production that is higher than what they earn from the marketplace."[1] We're subsidizing the low co…

> the marketplace failed to provide both affordable milk and the ability for dairy farmers to make a living. So the price is both two low and too high? This is not a failure of the marketplace (aka price discovery), this is the U.S. deciding that cheap milk and overproduction is in the nation's best interest and we should socialize some of the production costs. There are logical (milk as a staple product and avoidanc…

Aren't there cases where the market fails when considered in broader context?

E.g., the market decides to off-shore manufacturing. This is good short-term as it leads to lower prices for consumers. But it's also potentially a failure at a national long-term level as it has reduced our manufacturing capacity. The short-term bias of the market can adversely affect long lead-time strategic interests. See: the inability to quickly pivot to manufacture medical goods in a pandemic or military goods in a large-scale conflict.

These types of market failures are what lead to the socialization that you mention.

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#352

Post by matz1 »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #328
matz1 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on how valuable you are to them. If you can help them let say generate $10M income (while live in Monaco) then its no brainer to pay you $1M

Hardly. Unless you have irreplaceable skills (protip: almost no-one does), they'll just get the other candidate to deliver $8m in value for $200k/p.a.

sure its depends on how easy for them to find other candidate.

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#353

Post by easterncalculus »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #271
x87678r wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd think the opposite. When I'm physically with people I can form groups, picket offices, go on strike. If I'm a remote worker I'm much more easily replaced and there isn't much I can do about it.

I wonder if and when we'll see remote unions appearing. Forming a group and going on strike is easy - perhaps easier - in a remote setting. Picketing offices could be done by overloading the company VPN, and DDoSing the company Exchange server would be the equivalent of a harder "picketing inside the plant, preventing work" strike.

Deliberately sending traffic with the explicit desire to cut off service is definitely not a "strike", that's 100% criminal. If you're not an employee, DDoS is already a crime. Why would it not be if you work there?

It's one thing to not show up as part of a strike, it's another to make life harder for those that do and commit computer crime.

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#354

Post by whimsicalism »

aeternum wrote: post #312
claudiulodro wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You want to pay $2 dollars for milk, instead of $20? That's thanks to competition between companies. It's not though. "The support granted to U.S dairy producers represented approximately [...] 73% of the farmers' marketplace revenue. USDA data also reveals that US dairy farmers operate at a loss, and have a cost of production that is higher than what they earn from the marketplace."[1] We're subsidizing the low co…

> the marketplace failed to provide both affordable milk and the ability for dairy farmers to make a living. So the price is both two low and too high? This is not a failure of the marketplace (aka price discovery), this is the U.S. deciding that cheap milk and overproduction is in the nation's best interest and we should socialize some of the production costs. There are logical (milk as a staple product and avoidanc…

> not a marketplace failure. Remove the subsidies and the market would quickly find the higher price at which dairy farmers could produce milk profitably and consumers would purchase it.

If it is in our societal interest to produce more milk so people can eat, and the market doesn't do so, requiring subsidy, then that is a failure of the market to meet society's need.

You're conflating the failure of a marketplace to function properly (as in smooth functioning of supply, demand, liquidity, etc) with the failure of the marketplace to provide social benefit.

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#355

Post by charliebrownau »

Its been goverment mandated " LAW " to pay every invidual the same min wage and goverment 'award" for decades

Both Bilogical sex's (male and female) have been getting paid the SAME per hour rate for many years

What the Global Authorian LEFT push's for is ' equality ' which is EQUAL OUTCOME

They demand someone in a aircon office on a phone and computer for 8 hours get paid the same as someone in a hot wharehouse or outside in the sun with phsyical labor , end up getting paid the same at the end of the week

Higher min wage ends up in higher consumer pricing and higher cost of living

If a business earns 5000 dollars per week and uses 4000 towards wages , increasing the min wage will reduce staff and hours for that same 4000 dollars used for wages

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#356

Post by ukoki »

sremani wrote: post #125
lgleason wrote: post #89

If you live in the US and are advocating for this be careful what you wish for. It could lead to your 100-200K per year salary being cut to well below 100K to equalize across all engineers including those in low cost areas such as China and India.

The Software Developers will follow the path of the Autoworkers of the 60s, once a high paid and esteemed profession which becomes a menial job with average pay. It is not that far either, I bet Software Developers do not have beyond 7 years for this to take shape and of course, those massive layoffs are just around the corner when remote works becomes the standard.

> The Software Developers will follow the path of the Autoworkers of the 60s, once a high paid and esteemed profession which becomes a menial job with average pay.

Not if we keep raising the barrier to entry by developing and making fashionable ever more complicated programming languages , libraries and concepts! /s

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#357

Post by dontbeevil1992 »

whimsicalism wrote: post #354
aeternum wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the marketplace failed to provide both affordable milk and the ability for dairy farmers to make a living. So the price is both two low and too high? This is not a failure of the marketplace (aka price discovery), this is the U.S. deciding that cheap milk and overproduction is in the nation's best interest and we should socialize some of the production costs. There are logical (milk as a staple product and avoidanc…

> not a marketplace failure. Remove the subsidies and the market would quickly find the higher price at which dairy farmers could produce milk profitably and consumers would purchase it. If it is in our societal interest to produce more milk so people can eat, and the market doesn't do so, requiring subsidy, then that is a failure of the market to meet society's need. You're conflating the failure of a marketplace to…

for certain people, the point of a market is not to meet people's needs, it is to "function efficiently," so they'll never think a failure to meet society's need is a market failure, that's just "the way things are, money doesn't grow on trees commie!"

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#358

Post by dionidium »

gtsop wrote: post #320
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #112

> You should expect "equal pay for equal work" at your new remote job So naive. In an ideal, utopian world? Maybe it would work this way. Maybe. In reality, your compensation is a function of your negotiating power. Some people, in fact, manage to get the same pay even when working remote, because they're "highly employable". Others don't. And let me add: I almost agree that remote work shouldn't necessarily command…

> In reality, your compensation is a function of your negotiating power. Ahhmm, no. Where does negotiation power stem from? Is it a skill? No. You are a product much like eveything else in this economy and you price is a function of how much you cost (living cost, heavily depedent on location) + supply/demand trends. Yes, your attitude and negotiation skills can impact your salary but only by a bit. You can't get you…

> Ahhmm, no. Where does negotiation power stem from? Is it a skill? No.

> You can't get your salary to tripple by negotiation. Why? What is the force that doesn't allow that?

I can't triple the speed at which I can throw a baseball, either, because of physics, but it's obviously a skill I can improve relative to other throwers of baseballs.

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#359

Post by jasonjayr »

renewiltord wrote: post #342
jasonjayr wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then companies should have no problems whatsoever with Unions? I mean, if a group of employees want to get together to amplify their negotiating power, then they should not stop that?

Companies can't stop you from unionizing. They can choose not to accept the collective agreement and they can hire permanent replacement for strikers. As for whether anyone should have a problem, you're welcome to have a problem. It's a free country. Whether that will lead to an outcome you desire is independent, though.

You're right; but all too often companies turn to government to pass laws weakening unions, rather than continue to negotiate in good faith.

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#360

Post by dionidium »

ajuc wrote: post #22
rich_sasha wrote: post #5

This, and similar moans, really misses the point. Employment is a social contract, looking for a compromise between two positions: * Employers want to essentially acquire a good (productive employee) for the best quality / price ratio. If a trained monkey could do the job for peanuts, employers would be happy. * Employees, and the society made up of employees, want stability, employment rights etc. as salary work is…

> there is no moral obligation for employers to pay a wage that's fair, based on the value of the employee work, perhaps above ~subsistence levels. is there moral obligation to do your job well instead of let's say watching youtube and doing bare minimum not to get fired? It's funny how people expect moral behaviour from other people but not from companies made of these people. Somehow it's fine for companies to be j…

You're conflating two distinct concepts: 1) what you're obligated to agree to; 2) what you're obligated to do once we've established what you've agreed to.

You're not morally obligated to agree to literally anything, but you are morally obligated to uphold your end of an agreement.

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