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Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

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Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#471
post #173

I’m seeing a lot of positive comments on HN about this: to me it seems to be purely a cynical piece of PR on Apple’s part. They hope to significantly reduce the pressure on politicians to take a close look at their App store practices by significantly reducing the absolute number of developers suffering the full impact whilst taking the minimum possible hit to their revenue. This has nothing to do with “doing the rig…

Cynical is an understatement, this is pure evil. Locking in developers to only use their AppStore and not anything else, taking %15 of small businesses revenue for payment processing, and all this in the middle of a pandemic and still taking credit for being "generous" and "industry leading". All this while the average payment processor take around %3. And don't forget the reason they're doing it is to diffuse critic…

The App Store is a lot more than “payment processing.”

If you sell 100 installs on the App Store as a small developer. How many would you sell if there wasn’t an App Store? You’d have to advertise — people just don’t show up at your website. PPC is expensive. And you have to learn how to do it. It’s hard for someone that doesn’t spend their time learning about PPC. It’s hard to get good ROIs even when you do know what you are doing. If you spend $0.50 per click and you sell your app for $3, and you have a 25% conversion rate (which is extremely high,) how much did it cost you to get that sale?

Then once they do get to your website, they have to pay. Ok, 2.9% + $0.30. Now they have to securely download the app. Where is your app hosted? Apparently that’s free and doesn’t cost you anything? Who maintains that system? How pays for that electricity? And updates? And security? Apparently all of that is free and takes zero time?

Chargeback? Uh oh. That’s a $20 fee while you have to fight and document the dispute. Maybe that takes 20 minutes, but more like 45 minutes by the time you write the challenge letter. Digital products, especially games, have a high rate of fraud compared to many industries.

Then there are sales taxes. Are you collecting and remitting the precise amounts to the various jurisdictions where you are selling? How about a sales tax permit? Do you have that?

And trust? I’ll buy an App Store app, but installing an app from some random developer without any assurances I am not installing something nefarious?

If you sold 200 downloads from your website but 300 downloads from the App Store but pay the 15-30%. What makes you more money?

Have you ever sold a product to a retail store? A $10 product in a retail store is purchased from the manufacturer at $5. If there is a distributor involved, that $10 product is purchased from the manufacturer at $2.50. Physical products are obviously different than digital, but the product distribution model for any product has markup across the chain. A manufacturer selling DTC has to have the infrastructure to sell to consumers, thus they aren’t selling at $2.50 anymore. Shipping 100 cases of a product to a distributor is a lot less work than shipping that same volume to individual customers. If you think of the App Store as a distributor — 30% is a bargain.

I think that many app developers don’t realize what things actually cost — when they do, they’d quickly realize they make far more money from the App Store than they would make selling it directly.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#472
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering we're talking about Fortnite I would suggest that it's trivial for anyone who can figure out how to play Fortnite.

If it was trivial they would not bring Fortnite to Play Store at all, but they did.

> If it was trivial they would not bring Fortnite to Play Store at all, but they did.

I think you're taking "trivial" to mean "completely frictionless with no downsides" which is not the sense in which I intended it to be taken.

To quote myself above:

> It's not a contradiction to say both "sideloading makes banning from the the Play Store less of an issue" and "it's better to be on the Play Store".

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#473
post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>is all about Tim Sweeney being a greedy business man Tim Sweeney provides one of the most advanced game engine technologies in the world completely for free for all revenue under 1 million. After 1 million you pay 5% on revenue over that, if your game makes $1,200,000 you pay Tim Sweeney $10,000. If you make 2 games and both games equally make 600K you pay Sweeney nothing. It's definitely a business but not sure "gr…

Sweeney has a net worth north of 5 billion dollars. Most of that comes from selling in-game currency to children. He wants a higher cut. Does that make him greedy?

High five!

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#474
post #173

I’m seeing a lot of positive comments on HN about this: to me it seems to be purely a cynical piece of PR on Apple’s part. They hope to significantly reduce the pressure on politicians to take a close look at their App store practices by significantly reducing the absolute number of developers suffering the full impact whilst taking the minimum possible hit to their revenue. This has nothing to do with “doing the rig…

> to it seems to be purely a cynical piece of PR on Apple’s part. Oh please. Has it ever occurred in the history of the world that the selfish motives of two different parties aligned? i.e. Apple gets good press for helping smaller developers and the smaller developers get increased revenues. It happens all the times, and it's called "good business". You can keep waiting for Apple's App Store executives to cover them…

It’d be a lot easier to believe if the change didn’t coincide with an incoming administration who has already signaled they’d be looking at anti-competitive practices. Those aligning incentives have an exquisite sense of timing, as it happened exactly as those talked of enforcements started becoming real.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is aimed at helping us small developers I doubt this was the aim. It suspect its aim was to fend off all this scrutiny on their App Store business. Who knows whether it'll work in avoiding attention from law makers and regulators, but this will do nothing to address the developer's concerns and problem with the App Store.

The cynic in me agrees. Perhaps Apple sees the writing on the wall and they can either make the change with good press or bad.

I don't think its cynical to believe this.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#476

Classic antitrust maneuver; divide and conquer, this time from Apple. Antitrust activists shouldn't let this dull their pencil. The main issue is not the exorbitant commission rate. Apple is hurting the consumers via its anti-competitive behavior with regards to what apps people are and are not allowed to install on a device that they've paid for. They are blocking value creation up and down the stack in a manner tha…

I have to agree you. It's intolerable that Apple has been allowed to lockdown their device for 10 years, completely control the market for apps and when it looks like regulators will take action they reduce their price and claim to be acting in the interest of small business. Third party app stores must be allowed. Apple should not be allowed to dictate what software I can and cannot have on my device.

I have to respectfully disagree with you. I think Apple controlling the App Store is one of the best decision that's ever been made for 95% of consumers.

My 82-year-old mom's desktop computer is riddled with spyware, browser toolbars, and other garbage. Her iPhone is pristine and works as well as it did the day she got it. That's because Apple refuses to allow that garbage to make it to the App Store.

Yes, there's some collateral damage for us nerds. And perhaps there should be an easier way to - for those who really care - install more low-level tools and apps. But it shouldn't be easy, and it shouldn't put the majority of users at risk.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#477
post #351
post #173

I’m seeing a lot of positive comments on HN about this: to me it seems to be purely a cynical piece of PR on Apple’s part. They hope to significantly reduce the pressure on politicians to take a close look at their App store practices by significantly reducing the absolute number of developers suffering the full impact whilst taking the minimum possible hit to their revenue. This has nothing to do with “doing the rig…

What does Nintendo, etc., charge to develop and distribute for a console? Captive platforms are not new. iOS devices are consoles.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#478
post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In game currency is not toys. It’s a way to monetize addictive videogames without providing any additional value. Do you think we should sell cigarettes to children? If not, why not?

Fortnite is absolutely a toy. It's no different than buying different outfits for your doll.

If you buy outfits for your doll, you have the outfits. You can pass them on to your own children along with the doll.

If you buy in-game currency from epic, you have nothing except the memory of a dopamine hit.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#479
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for users who wish to use the macOS without engaging in Apple's services business. It's already impossible on iOS, due to the fact that you cannot install any software except via the App Store, which requires an Apple ID. At the moment it is possible to continue to use a mac and download and run software without an Apple ID, but if the trend of only releasing software via the App Store continues, that will become…

Apple leadership has repeatedly said they aren't going to further restrict app installs on MacOS. Craig Fredaspaghetti just spoke about this in interviews on the Apple Silicon/Big Sur release. They use MacOS every day themselves, and deeply care about what it's different use case requires.

There are, as I understand it, certain notarization entitlements for APIs that Apple will only grant for App Store apps, such as VPN apps. This is the first I've heard of functionality being restricted to MAS apps (and prohibited from signed/notarized apps that are downloaded outside of MAS).

I was told this by the WireGuard team when I inquired why the WireGuard macOS VPN app is only available via MAS and not direct download (such as the Windows wg client).

I'm not 100% sure it's true, though, and am testing now. ProtonVPN claims to be working, with packet filtering for non-VPN traffic (kill switch) on 11.x, and they've a direct download, so it's possible that the wg devs are mistaken.

Apple leadership is answering in the implied context of "someone with an Apple ID". I'm never using my Apple ID again on a mac for any reason.

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