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"Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

nityesh.com

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Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#281

Post by Aunche »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #256
satyrnein wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this include coercing the employer to only employ union members? What does the union say if the company wants to hire someone for cheap in another country, who wants the job?

I would hope my union would support legislation and lobby to protect wages over employer profits (with employers attempting to optimize for profits by employing cheaper offshore labor). Otherwise, the first world's standard of living is going to quickly race to the median of the world. If, as an employer, you would prefer not to adhere to strong labor protection laws in the market you desire to operate in, you are fr…

Why is it inherently better to protect one middle class job in a first world country rather than lift 2 families out of poverty in the developing world? I'm not pretending that outsourcing is ethical thing to do, but neither is opposing outsourcing.

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#282

Post by toomuchtodo »

Aunche wrote: post #281
toomuchtodo wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would hope my union would support legislation and lobby to protect wages over employer profits (with employers attempting to optimize for profits by employing cheaper offshore labor). Otherwise, the first world's standard of living is going to quickly race to the median of the world. If, as an employer, you would prefer not to adhere to strong labor protection laws in the market you desire to operate in, you are fr…

Why is it inherently better to protect one middle class job in a first world country rather than lift 2 families out of poverty in the developing world? I'm not pretending that outsourcing is ethical thing to do, but neither is opposing outsourcing.

I vigorously support those with more wealth than they'll ever spend (billionaires and such, the wealthiest in the world) to take efforts to lift the poorest out of poverty. We're talking about a nation's labor policies to protect it's own citizens. Why would a nation disadvantage it's own citizens for the benefit of another country's citizens? If you're not protecting the income and ability to accumulate wealth of your citizens, this comes out of the pocket of your government's coffers for safety nets. So, at scale, weak labor policies are a wealth transfer from the middle class (that they didn't agree to) to other countries (as well as shareholders of your own country).

The richest 1%, with over $1 million in wealth, own 44% of the world's wealth, but we're going to keep chipping away at the middle class?

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#283

Post by yeetman21 »

KittenInABox wrote: post #269
yeetman21 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To reply to your point about H1B: Unions are normally very nativist and would be the last group pushing for better/ more H1B visas. The Union reaction to the TPP should have indicated something. I feel as if the ageism is more on the worker's shoulders. Many of us are young, and the field is on the younger side on average

Unions can be nativist but a tech union shouldn't have to be just because another labor union might've been. Ageism is on the worker's shoulders, but those workers are also managers who choose to do bullshit like lay off workers above a certain age across a company. We need ways to protect ourselves from that.

Unions are meant to increase wages for the workers. How will added X thousands of new workers (willing or forced to work for less) increase wages for the workers. It is by its design that unions are nativist.

Agree with the second point on ageism

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#284

Post by coward8675309 »

tekno45 wrote: post #263
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #112

> You should expect "equal pay for equal work" at your new remote job So naive. In an ideal, utopian world? Maybe it would work this way. Maybe. In reality, your compensation is a function of your negotiating power. Some people, in fact, manage to get the same pay even when working remote, because they're "highly employable". Others don't. And let me add: I almost agree that remote work shouldn't necessarily command…

Milk prices are regulated, thats why we don't pay 20 dollars a gallon.

No. If milk prices were unregulated you'd pay less, at least in the US and I believe Europe.

https://www.fb.org/market-intel/how-milk-is-really-priced-in...

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#285

Post by toiletfuneral »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #280
jasonjayr wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then companies should have no problems whatsoever with Unions? I mean, if a group of employees want to get together to amplify their negotiating power, then they should not stop that?

I didn't say anything about Unions. I am not an expert, but my humble, quick one-liner to describe how I see Unions is the following: Unions are good to protect employees that don't have negotiating power (e.g. factory workers), otherwise companies would take too much advantage of them. I am not sure this necessarily applies to knowledge workers, especially if their work can be done remotely to some extent. And I am…

Wow unions sound horrible, unlike management & capital who would never have an agenda or risk endangering the firm.

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#286

Post by proverbialbunny »

sremani wrote: post #125
lgleason wrote: post #89

If you live in the US and are advocating for this be careful what you wish for. It could lead to your 100-200K per year salary being cut to well below 100K to equalize across all engineers including those in low cost areas such as China and India.

The Software Developers will follow the path of the Autoworkers of the 60s, once a high paid and esteemed profession which becomes a menial job with average pay. It is not that far either, I bet Software Developers do not have beyond 7 years for this to take shape and of course, those massive layoffs are just around the corner when remote works becomes the standard.

Kids today are being taught to program in elementary school.

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#287

Post by claudiulodro »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #112

> You should expect "equal pay for equal work" at your new remote job So naive. In an ideal, utopian world? Maybe it would work this way. Maybe. In reality, your compensation is a function of your negotiating power. Some people, in fact, manage to get the same pay even when working remote, because they're "highly employable". Others don't. And let me add: I almost agree that remote work shouldn't necessarily command…

> You want to pay $2 dollars for milk, instead of $20? That's thanks to competition between companies.

It's not though. "The support granted to U.S dairy producers represented approximately [...] 73% of the farmers' marketplace revenue. USDA data also reveals that US dairy farmers operate at a loss, and have a cost of production that is higher than what they earn from the marketplace."[1]

We're subsidizing the low cost of milk via taxes because the marketplace failed to provide both affordable milk and the ability for dairy farmers to make a living.

[1] https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/american-dai...

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#288

Post by [deleted] »

jasonjayr wrote: post #136
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #112

> You should expect "equal pay for equal work" at your new remote job So naive. In an ideal, utopian world? Maybe it would work this way. Maybe. In reality, your compensation is a function of your negotiating power. Some people, in fact, manage to get the same pay even when working remote, because they're "highly employable". Others don't. And let me add: I almost agree that remote work shouldn't necessarily command…

Then companies should have no problems whatsoever with Unions? I mean, if a group of employees want to get together to amplify their negotiating power, then they should not stop that?

[deleted]

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#289

Post by jpollock »

If you can move to a cheaper location and perform your job, your job can be exported to a cheaper country and performed there.

It is possible to outsource jobs overseas, but the additional friction in communication will frequently overwhelm the benefits.

I learned this from watching firms first outsource to New Zealand and then to India, only to pull the work back because the communication and training issues were huge.

Re: "Equal pay for equal work" in remote jobs

#290

Post by cercatrova »

nicoburns wrote: post #126
falcolas wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This 'misconception' comes from two big sources, IMO: 1) Leadership is paid for the value they bring. Primarily through huge stock grants as part of their multi-million dollar compensation packages. 2) Companies always discuss employee compensation, especially raises and bonuses, in terms of the value an employee has relative to their peers. So, it's no wonder that people believe that their value has something to do…

> Leadership is paid for the value they bring. Primarily through huge stock grants as part of their multi-million dollar compensation packages. No they're not. They're massively overpaid relative to value they bring. They generally get these multi-million dollar compensation packages regardless of performance. Presumably this is also because of their power to negotiate which is high because they're more or less in ch…

Correct, even leadership is paid according to the market. Companies know that of they pay too little, then leadership will go elsewhere. It's not any different to regular employees in terms of getting paid according to supply and demand.
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