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Update to Git changes the default of init.defaultBranch to main

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Re: Update to Git changes the default of init.defaultBranch to main

#61

Post by _pmf_ »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #10
tachyonbeam wrote: post #3

If I say "you are the master of your own destiny", is that offensive, because the word "master" is always offensive? I think that "main branch" sounds fine, it makes as much sense as "master branch", but I'm irked that people are always caving to word policing. Like, we're just going to scratch a whole bunch of words from the dictionary because someone somewhere is offended? The other day, people at my workplace were…

It depends on the person. Likely some people could be offended and some people wouldn't. The more relevant question is, should we care about those people's feelings. We could apply this suggested rationale to any hypothetical or actual use of language. What people find offensive tends to be deeply personal. Look at comedians who tell a joke that 'cross a line' -- some people will say it's nothing, some people will sa…

> The more relevant question is, should we care about those people's feelings

We pretend to care about pretended feelings.

If we care about people who are offended, we would: a) if they a fake offended (99%): tell them to stop appropriating other's concerns in bad faith b) if they are really offended: help them to understand that the only way forward is being more resilient

Re: Update to Git changes the default of init.defaultBranch to main

#62

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

tachyonbeam wrote: post #22
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the person. Likely some people could be offended and some people wouldn't. The more relevant question is, should we care about those people's feelings. We could apply this suggested rationale to any hypothetical or actual use of language. What people find offensive tends to be deeply personal. Look at comedians who tell a joke that 'cross a line' -- some people will say it's nothing, some people will sa…

It seems to me like the people actually forcing these superficial changes through shaming and bullying are actually, for the most part, privileged upper middle class white people. That was definitely the case with the NIPS => NeurIPS conference renaming. That whole thing got started by some white dude on twitter.

So, let's apply the process. Suppose Person A says something, and Person B thinks another colleague, Person C, might find offensive.

That alone may be enough to offend Person B. They feel Person A may be creating an uncomfortable environment, intentional or not. Person C may not even be actually offended, but other people of Person C's {race,sex,etc} have been offended by similar statements. How people apply judgment is an individual process.

Should we care about how any of these people feel? Is Person {A,B,C} right or wrong to feel how they do? We can't control how other people feel about things, but we can try our best as individuals to promote welcoming environments, but recognize we are human and won't always get it right.

Re: Update to Git changes the default of init.defaultBranch to main

#64

Post by spoopyskelly »

mason55 wrote: post #45
denysvitali wrote: post #11

Can we please stop wondering about being politically correct and focus on the real problems of the world? Thanks! I would also like to add the fact that politics or any social matter IMHO should be kept out of software in general. I don't think that any other engineering field has this much drama over some words that have been part of our whole life until now like IT is having.

Imagine if instead of master/slave the terms were master and "n-word". Would there be a reasonable argument to change it at that point? If you say "yes" then you agree there is a line somewhere. If that's the case then we should discuss where the line should be and why it should be there instead of saying "stop [worrying] about being politically correct". If you say "no" then your argument is that no words are too of…

There was no master/slave in Git so your strawman doesn't apply.

Re: Update to Git changes the default of init.defaultBranch to main

#65

Post by dtech »

zaksoup wrote: post #14
tachyonbeam wrote: post #3

If I say "you are the master of your own destiny", is that offensive, because the word "master" is always offensive? I think that "main branch" sounds fine, it makes as much sense as "master branch", but I'm irked that people are always caving to word policing. Like, we're just going to scratch a whole bunch of words from the dictionary because someone somewhere is offended? The other day, people at my workplace were…

I don’t really get this sentiment. Are you so absolutely dedicated to the phrase “falling on deaf ears” that if somebody says to you “hey, that phrase might hurt somebody’s feelings, can you use an alternative” you take it as some sort of massive imposition on your life? I don’t understand why small changes that can be done in kindness are seen as so inconvenient as to be worth this level of rejection. I’m hearing im…

I feel for your problems, but I don't think you being hearing impaired gives you a right to be offended at the usage of the word "deaf". It's a functional description, not a slur.

I have some similar things which I'd rather not expand upon, but I don't think that gives me the right to be offended at terms unless they are slurs. As a comparison, people shouldn't be offended at any usage of the word "smart", but they're allowed to be offended by the word "nerd".

Re: Update to Git changes the default of init.defaultBranch to main

#66

Post by wayneftw »

Meh. I'll change it back. I'm not "dying on a hill" either when I do this because nobody will care. Nobody that I work with will care and nobody that looks at my source code online will care.

If and when someone does care about what I name my branch, it will be an easy way for me to identify a person that I would rather avoid working with.

The reason I care enough to even change it back is because I think the whole idea is driven by stupidity and it's my personal policy to not give into stupid demands. I simply don't do political correctness. If people don't like it, they can just fuck right off.

Re: Update to Git changes the default of init.defaultBranch to main

#67

Post by throwaheyy »

pseudalopex wrote: post #57
throwaheyy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I understand the idea of banning words being taken so far. I always interpreted Git’s usage of ‘master’ to mean the original replica. Like the golden master of a record or CD.

Nobody banned anything. They changed a default. Git was developed to replace Bitkeeper. Git's usage of master probably comes from Bitkeeper's usage of master and slave.

Ok, that’s maybe a bit different.

Re: Update to Git changes the default of init.defaultBranch to main

#68

Post by josefx »

PretzelFisch wrote: post #13

If the name change builds a larger, diverse, empathetic community. What have you or I lost?

A lot of work fixing code that depended on the old behavior, having to guess if a repo uses the old or new style and probably implementing workarounds for both cases.

At the foggy promise of recruiting people that cannot be in the same room as anyone holding a masters degree without suffering from mass hysteria.

Re: Update to Git changes the default of init.defaultBranch to main

#69

Post by GhostVII »

I hate this, we shouldn't be accommodating people being irrationally offended. Sure it's not much work in this instance, but what happens when people move on to being offended by blacklist, or sanity check, or one of the other thousands of terms that can be warped to be offensive. And then if you refuse to change because it makes no sense and is a lot of work, you become some kind of racist/sexist because the expectation is that you change your language to accommodate the tiny number of people who are offended for no reason.

Language is a tool, and changes over time. If the meaning of a word actually changes to mean something offensive of course we should change it. But that isn't what has happened here, instead people are picking out one offensive definition of "master" and trying to apply it to places where it doesn't make sense. Are we going to rename "master of ceremonies", or "master record"? Of course not, because in a language where words have multiple definitions, context matters.

Re: Update to Git changes the default of init.defaultBranch to main

#70

Post by wadkar »

tachyonbeam wrote: post #15
tbrake wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the grand scheme of slippery slopes this change isn't even at an angle.

I fully agree that this specific change is insignificant, but the biggest deep learning conference has been renamed, after something like 20 years, because of this kind of pressure. Word policing has a bit of a 1984 feel to it. Some desire to control you and how you think by controlling which words you use, with new arbitrary words being banned all the time. Instead of actual change, we're focusing on the superficial…

I can assure you that I have seen 30+ year old graduate students giggle and try not to laugh in the Machine Learning Departments at CMU whenever that conference name was dropped in the office.

I mean, you would think people would grow up, right? I am glad our female colleagues don’t have to suppress their embarrassment while mentioning the conference anymore.

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