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My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

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Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#81
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She interacts with her peers at school and with her family... by that same token, ANYONE who grew up before Snapchat or the Internet had or has lacking social skills. You know how we don't really get this whole social media thing the kids are into these days? That's because we lack those social skills. Just like how your parents' generation struggles with E-mail despite it being so simple, because you grew up with…

My parents struggling with e-mail is no way the same thing as lacking social skills. That just seems a lack of technology skills. My point was that saying Snapchat or social media leads to greater social skills than what previous generations had is very hard for me to believe.

Tomato tomato

You can communicate via a method your parents can't because you used it extensively in your prime while they didn't. Your grandparents probably had the same issue with fax machines and your grandchildren will probably have the same problem with neural-messaging. Every generation thinks "but this time it's different" and every generation is wrong.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#83
post #53

> Somewhere along the way, I realize that apps like TikTok and Instagram are impervious to Apple’s Screen Time limit. They work even when the rest of her phone shuts down. To keep the peace, I let it slide. The author is completely wrong about this, so I can only assume that their kid is indeed being creative and has manipulated them into believing it. Overall... this does seem like an "onset of adolescence" thing. 2…

> Overall... this does seem like an "onset of adolescence" thing. 20 years ago this author would have been bemoaning that their teenage daughter spent all day on the land-line with her friends

This time it is so different. On the landline with friends you could talk but not be manipulated by external actors. Landlines are not exactly skinner boxes and also they cannot be thrown into one's pocket and be with them virtually everywhere. This time it is different.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#85
post #7

Looks like correlation, not causation. Our precocious angels have been transforming into sullen monsters at the onset of adolescence since the beginning of time. Do we really think they would have stayed precocious angels forever, if only they had never discovered comic books or rock'n'roll or TV or video games or whatever the current teenage vice happens to be? Sure, there is good evidence that smartphones are more…

The year is 2050. "My daughter was a creative genius, then we bought her first neural lace."

If neural lace's primary use is going to be participation in the global network of advertisement-funded Skinner boxes, then honestly, I won't be getting one myself, despite how hyped I am about brain-computer interfaces in general.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#86
post #7

Looks like correlation, not causation. Our precocious angels have been transforming into sullen monsters at the onset of adolescence since the beginning of time. Do we really think they would have stayed precocious angels forever, if only they had never discovered comic books or rock'n'roll or TV or video games or whatever the current teenage vice happens to be? Sure, there is good evidence that smartphones are more…

I had the opposite take. I also feel like an addict with my iPhone, and I’m old enough that they didn’t exist when I was a teenager. I’m not sure why the author thinks waiting until her daughter was 14 would have changed much, she would just end up addicted then.

> I had the opposite take. I also feel like an addict with my iPhone, and I’m old enough that they didn’t exist when I was a teenager. I’m not sure why the author thinks waiting until her daughter was 14 would have changed much, she would just end up addicted then.

I have 4 active mobile phones and I cannot understand the allure people who claim to be 'addicted' to phones have with them. I actually dread the time I spend on them, as the UX is so much worse when used to interface with Internet than a PC/Laptop in my opinion.

I also grew up at a time before smartphones but I grew up on the Internet using computers/laptops and admittedly spend a large time of my Life on both, for work and leisure, but I still cannot understand this seemingly prevalent disease that has afflicted so many. And I do have what some may deem an addictive personality, specifically to adrenaline and endorphins.

I think the common variable is the lack of time spent outside cities and their homes and have an almost pathological aversion to Nature. I can assure you that the latest Twitter beef seems incredibly insignificant after a 10 mile hike and watching the sunset in total silence, more should try it. Believe me I was there for its first incarnations and the forum 'flame wars,' of the 90s and early 2000s; they're only fun so many times until you grow out of them (ideally in your teens) and they all predictably start and end the same way. Its really not that interesting.

> Im not sure why the author thinks waiting until her daughter was 14

As for this, I agree with OP; I went to private school most of my life with many helicopter parents who swore their children were supposed prodigies only to seem them 'throw it all away' after they left the 8th grade and got their first taste of freedom they discovered members of the opposite sex, cars, status, drugs and booze and many ended up in continuation schools as they did it all in excess.

I'm personally glad I went to one night school class (as I always skipped morning classes) my freshman year of HS just to see what happens to people like that, it was massive learning experience but also a deterrent to not fall into those traps.

It also got me interested in computer networking as I was in a class sponsored by Cisco and my fascination with tech went beyond just soldering/hacking Playstation and Dreamcast consoles and ripping games to sell at school.

I think the bias and their views tends to lean toward their disappointment, but some people are just too easily susceptible and are often coerced by their parents into a certain path, and once they have any semblance of freedom they just rebel against it all. And I can understand that as I have a few cousins that ended up that way and we could all see it coming from a very young age.

To be honest the people who I found to be most successful in Life, beyond just financial and material wealth, and over all well adjusted were people whose parents just let them become who they wanted after their toddler years and then nurtured and supported their skills and talents that way. They had very healthy relationships with their families, often after turbulent teenage years, and were very open and free thinking about problem solving and World views.

Everyone is prone to peer pressure, especially in your early teens when you have no idea who you are and often are so quick to give into group think to fit in (we're biologically hardwired that way for survival), so I can see why some parents may want to wait until 14 or older. But I finis it hard to accept the consequences these devices are supposedly creating. Social Media 'balling' and the supposed depression that follows for so many seem insignificant when you grew up seeing what job your friend finished for Arab Shieks in Saudi Arabia and Dubai to a bunch Zonda Rs and Helicopters for a lark on a Tuesday morning. It was just funny, and kind of sad to think anyone with much money was that crass and had such poor taste.

I personally think its a mistake, but I understand the reasoning.

As, anecdotally, I mentioned I grew up on the Internet and I'm very grateful to my family that I was allowed the freedom and the opportunity to be subjected to all of those positive and negative influences in the early days of the Internet as it helped narrow down who and what it was that I really wanted in my Life.

Sheltering your children from the harsh realities of the World may seem like the right thing to do, I still recall the aftermath online in the Columbine shooting to this day, but it has many unintended consequences; the World is a very messy place and being a *young adult) and having never developed any coping mechanisms for stress or dealing with difficult situations as you get coaxed into the World is one of the saddest things I have ever encountered. I think this what you are really seeing on many campuses in University in the US and Canada (I started to see the rise of it as I left in 2009) and the toxic rise in cancel-culture online that's bled into the real World.

It's pushed by people who never learned to deal with the often very brutal realities, that the World is marred with conflict and filled with paradoxes and that its a constant battle for sanity and reason to prevail; but equally that it is your responsibility as a Human to navigate that and make the most of it and your Life. Because if you're a student and must have a job to pay for tuition, rent and bills you really aren't going to be getting riled up about the 'Sociological and degrading Epistemological implications' of not having gender-less/trans bathrooms on campus and need to riot and disrupt classes until the entire campus becomes a safe space in order to cope with those ramifications while you waste the next 6 years to write a dissertation on gender studies as a result of it.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#87
Buried lede:

> My daughter doesn’t return home from school until 6:30 pm and still has to eat, bathe, and get ready for bed.

Perhaps it is not just the iPhone, but school taking up 100% of her time, energy, and attention that is preventing her from pursuing creative interests? As a homeschooling parent whose kids have been in school at times, I see this first hand. School is exhausting. Between rising unnaturally early (which leaves kids tired), rushing and bustling kids on their daily commute, most of the daylight hours blocked for school then homework when you get home not to mention whatever homework the teachers decide to assign to parents, and did I mention the kids are exhausted by the end of the day due to early wake-up?

Compulsory daily full-time school for children may be good for some things but it would take a lot to convince me that it increases their creativity. When my kids home school they will spend a lot of time playing roblox or whatever, but then they'll spend hours playing outdoors, decide to do a cooking project that takes all morning–currently one of mine is getting into "bushcraft" and he'll watch hours of videos about making fires, carving etc. before putting the tips it into practice (safely) during times outdoors, where he spends hours and hours. Then he'll come back, play roblox for an hour, then help clean up and put the younger kids to bed.

I am concerned about over-use/addictive nature of computers & phones, but I think it's myopic to see your otherwise creative child tired and craving mental distraction and say "aha the phone is the problem." Step back and look at the whole picture.

Edit: I must admit I commented after reading only half the article (shame on me). It does in fact seem like her daughter has a phone-use problem. What I say above remains true, however.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#88
post #7

Looks like correlation, not causation. Our precocious angels have been transforming into sullen monsters at the onset of adolescence since the beginning of time. Do we really think they would have stayed precocious angels forever, if only they had never discovered comic books or rock'n'roll or TV or video games or whatever the current teenage vice happens to be? Sure, there is good evidence that smartphones are more…

I had the opposite take. I also feel like an addict with my iPhone, and I’m old enough that they didn’t exist when I was a teenager. I’m not sure why the author thinks waiting until her daughter was 14 would have changed much, she would just end up addicted then.

My kid's first "social" app is Roblox and part of my justification for is that it's easier to talk about some of the issues of social media while they are young and will listen to me.

We talk a lot about addiction and the tricks games play to make you want to come back every day. We talk a lot about safety and what predictors are looking for and what they say to try to sound like a friend. I hope these are good discussions and I hope they stay with my kids as they grow.

If I'd started at 14? They've already learned to tune me out by then.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The year is 2050. "My daughter was a creative genius, then we bought her first neural lace."

If neural lace's primary use is going to be participation in the global network of advertisement-funded Skinner boxes, then honestly, I won't be getting one myself, despite how hyped I am about brain-computer interfaces in general.

amen to that

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#90

I think a lot of people are missing the point. That could be attributed to the poor title, though. The way I see it, pre-phone their daughter was probably much more engaged with her parents and was doing more manual creative stuff. After the phone appeared, she distanced herself and got absorbed by it. I don't get why so many people here are trying to defend smartphones/social media? Isn't it pretty obvious they are…

Agreed that these can be bad (my kids have some socials but I keep an eye on them and have lots of talks about pitfalls to avoid), but for the sake of argument I can't help pointing out that what you're describing is a normal process of individuation that teens all go through.

Social attention focused inward toward family --> Social attention turning outward towards others + establishing an identity apart from that of the family. This is totally normal.

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