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Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

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Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#281

Post by grishka »

pja wrote: post #173

I’m seeing a lot of positive comments on HN about this: to me it seems to be purely a cynical piece of PR on Apple’s part. They hope to significantly reduce the pressure on politicians to take a close look at their App store practices by significantly reducing the absolute number of developers suffering the full impact whilst taking the minimum possible hit to their revenue. This has nothing to do with “doing the rig…

It's not even the 30% cut itself. It's the inevitable necessity to go through Apple if you want any presence on iOS. The only solution I see here is to allow proper sideloading.

Apple keeps trying to spin the app store as a way for users to discover apps, when in reality, the reason developers publish their apps there is that it's the only way onto the millions of iOS devices worldwide.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#282

Post by mojzu »

pja wrote: post #173

I’m seeing a lot of positive comments on HN about this: to me it seems to be purely a cynical piece of PR on Apple’s part. They hope to significantly reduce the pressure on politicians to take a close look at their App store practices by significantly reducing the absolute number of developers suffering the full impact whilst taking the minimum possible hit to their revenue. This has nothing to do with “doing the rig…

I think it’s more targeted specifically at Epic, although maybe they thought it might help more generally with antitrust too. Epic made a big deal in their lawsuit/PR about how apples policies negatively impact smaller developers, and that they were standing up for them. With this change apple can now push back on this point against Epic, as it’s unlikely they will drop the lawsuit.

It’s something I’ve been torn on for a while, on the one hand 30% seems way too high for most apps (maybe you could make an argument for a few that rely more heavily on apple infrastructure). But on the other app stores do provide a lot of benefits like auto-update, malware scanning, reviews, distribution, etc. that most apps couldn’t or wouldn’t do by themselves.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#283

Post by wokwokwok »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #248
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to it seems to be purely a cynical piece of PR on Apple’s part. Oh please. Has it ever occurred in the history of the world that the selfish motives of two different parties aligned? i.e. Apple gets good press for helping smaller developers and the smaller developers get increased revenues. It happens all the times, and it's called "good business". You can keep waiting for Apple's App Store executives to cover them…

If Apple didn't fear either Epic's lawsuit or Congressional action, or both, they'd never reduce their app store cut, for anyone, ever. This announcement means Apple knows that neither public opinion nor the law is on their side and they're about to lose really, really big. And they're hoping if they can flip this around a bit and get control of the narrative, they can convince regulators they will self-regulate... w…

> they can convince regulators they will self-regulate... while continuing to get a third of the revenue from all the most lucrative developers.

So what?

Seriously, who cares if Epic earns 14 bzillionty dollars this month, or 20 bzillionty dollars?

At that scale, the 30% is such a terrible thorn in your side?

Come on. Cry me a damn river.

The 'narrative' here is Epic pretending they care about anyone except themselves and that this ridiculous song and dance is about it being 'good for everyone'.

Let's try something positive instead:

What should they have done then to make you happy?

Seriously; if this is such a cynical, terrible move, what should they have done?

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#284

Post by JumpCrisscross »

pja wrote: post #173

I’m seeing a lot of positive comments on HN about this: to me it seems to be purely a cynical piece of PR on Apple’s part. They hope to significantly reduce the pressure on politicians to take a close look at their App store practices by significantly reducing the absolute number of developers suffering the full impact whilst taking the minimum possible hit to their revenue. This has nothing to do with “doing the rig…

> significantly reducing the absolute number of developers suffering the full impact whilst taking the minimum possible hit to their revenue

It also reduces their anti-competitive effect on new entrants. Now they have a beachhead. Sounds like a win-win.

There should be an additional tier between e.g. $1mm and $25mm. Though that still wouldn't satisfy an absolutist constituency. So maybe this is the most efficient compromise.

> This has nothing to do with “doing the right thing”

Who cares? I'll take effective solutions from self-interested actors over well-intentioned bumbling.

> everything to do with limiting the number of outraged letters to senators from devs

Sounds like a responsive political system.

If your concern is the App Store's 30% take from large developers, good news: they have the resources to find recourse in courts. Small developers don't. Given this has zero effect on Epic, it has zero effect on their case. (Just, perhaps, its lobbying effect in Congress.)

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#285

Post by oblio »

breakfastduck wrote: post #135
saagarjha wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But developers provide value to Apple and users as well, and of course already "pay" by writing software for the platform.

Thats fair but kinda like saying a food product producer is already providing value to a store by producing goods but not paying the store any money to host their product. It doesn't really make sense.

Of course, as we all know, the cost of distributing 1 million digital goods is the same, and scales the same way, as distributing 1 million physical goods.

There is a moral imperative that copying of software, which costs almost 0, is taxed per unit, just like physical goods, where there is a storage cost, a transport cost, etc.

I'm being ironic, obviously. Apple's App Store profits show that they're basically just sharecropping developers. Their operating costs are minimal and the fact that they're allowed to charge per unit, like they're Walmart and have to stock actual shelves, is quite ridiculous.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#286

Post by grishka »

sercand wrote: post #152
gtsteve wrote: post #21

Looks nice but it doesn't solve my fundamental problem: 1. I invest loads of time and effort developing an app 2. Apple rejects it -or- 2. Apple approves it 3. I ship a new update 4. Apple rejects the update and now decides my app should have been rejected retroactively. I'm especially concerned about what happened to Hey and others but my customers are demanding smartphone apps and there are still limits to what can…

At least review process is better than Google's because when we rejected on Play Store we can't get any feedback from Google. They send a template email which says the "problem maybe A or B, check what you have changed". Apple provides screenshots and human written explanation on rejection. I have even talked on the phone with review team several times to discuss the problem. Yes, it sucks that the update may be reje…

Google does have its problems, but at least you still have the option of publishing an apk on your website.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#287

Post by eecc »

fakedang wrote: post #214
eecc wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine the outrage if people learned the markup that distributors make on vegetables and dairy as well as the monopsony power they wield against small farmers!

Wish I could downvote this for fake info, but I'm too new. Distributors make a pittance for a relatively risky bet on delivering fruit and veggies. Margins are usually below 10%, often close to 5%, and definitely nowhere near 30%. On top of that, there's the added risk of damage happening to the goods in transit and storage, voiding the entire profit. Google and Apple make money by sitting on their asses and taking a…

Nope, you should do your research before reaching for your guns. In Italy for example it’s a well known, scandalous situation that’s been going on for years.

Apologies for the Italian links but that’s all I could find for now:

https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2020/05/14/frutta-e-verdura...

https://youtu.be/29OYrFOYkTg

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#288

Post by JumpCrisscross »

simonh wrote: post #255
benhurmarcel wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should that work in that way on desktop also? With Microsoft/Apple being free to restrict apps to their store only, and taking a cut of every transaction made outside the browser? If not, what's the difference with phones/tablets?

The difference is just a historical choice. The desktop platform owners chose to be open in that way, but they didn't have to. Games console makers chose to go the locked down route at about the same time (in the grand scheme of things). The Mac launched long after many locked down games consoles existed. They just chose different strategies.

> desktop platform owners chose to be open in that way, but they didn't have to

They probably did. The industry was small. Attracting developers in significant numbers meant convincing people to become developers. That is a huge hurdle. Platforms with entry fees didn't build app ecosystems that attracted end users.

By the time the iPhone was announced, developers were plenty and the software business model proven. Apple had resources to subsidize onboarding with a well-documented, rich API and good native apps.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#290

Post by ocdtrekkie »

wokwokwok wrote: post #283
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Apple didn't fear either Epic's lawsuit or Congressional action, or both, they'd never reduce their app store cut, for anyone, ever. This announcement means Apple knows that neither public opinion nor the law is on their side and they're about to lose really, really big. And they're hoping if they can flip this around a bit and get control of the narrative, they can convince regulators they will self-regulate... w…

> they can convince regulators they will self-regulate... while continuing to get a third of the revenue from all the most lucrative developers. So what? Seriously, who cares if Epic earns 14 bzillionty dollars this month, or 20 bzillionty dollars? At that scale, the 30% is such a terrible thorn in your side? Come on. Cry me a damn river. The 'narrative' here is Epic pretending they care about anyone except themselve…

> Seriously, who cares if Epic earns 14 bzillionty dollars this month, or 20 bzillionty dollars?

The narrative here is amazing, because you're not sympathizing with Epic because they're so big and have so much money... but they're still the little guy compared to Apple. The scale of Apple's monopoly profit makes Epic look like a corner pharmacy in Montana.

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