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Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

reuters.com

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Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#101

Post by danielrpa »

LatteLazy wrote: post #30

This perfectly epitomises the uk (and the rest of the worlds) attitude to global warming: * it's a non binding commitment to do something but not for at least a decade * it's not enough even if it does happen * it will be too late by then (it probably already is for anything but drastic action) * it's totally at the whim of future governments who will be no more willing to spend the money/time/popularity than the cur…

Agreed. If the government was serious about starting a program for reducing emissions from internal combustion engines, it could start by gradually increasing the gasoline tax until it became prohibitively expensive to buy an internal combustion engine car in 2030. In your analogy, the diet would start on day 1 with an objective reduction in sweets, even if not 100% quite yet.

BTW, I'm not saying that the government should increase the tax, I'm just saying that a concrete action in the present would go a long way towards building credibility.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#102

Post by eertami »

ainiriand wrote: post #66
djmobley wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’ve completely missed the point of what is a very reasonable and forward-thinking signalling exercise. You cannot have sudden cliff-edges in policies (like banning the sale of new ICE vehicles) that would put thousands, if not millions of people out of jobs. You need to send signals like this to the market well in advance so they can invest and plan ahead.

There are many things that can be done, in this very same moment. The problem is the high cost in political resources that no one is willing to pay. Some examples: - Start by implementing a odd/even rule for license plates in big cities, even full bans on weekends. - Tax and/or de-subsidize the meat industry. - Incentivize the installation of wind or other renewable energies. Energies with no CO2 emissions, like nucl…

Most people get a measly 2 days of leisure time per week and you want to ban them from being able to use cars/leave the city on their 2 free days?

Good luck I guess?

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#103

Post by kjksf »

barnacled wrote: post #68

This is utterly ridiculous. I live in the UK and have been renting for many years, I've lived at 15+ addresses and not at a single one could I have powered the car from home. Not one. The UK is small, cars are squeezed onto tiny roads and most people do on-street parking, i.e. you park where you can. When I last had a car I could only park around the corner from my flat (which was set far back from the road). Having…

If charging is as much of a hassle as you claim then hybrids would be the worst of both worlds: you would get under-powered ICE car with a small and yet unnecessary batter that would never be charged because, as you just described, charging is not a hassle.

You have 10 years to enjoy your oil hungry, polluting ICE car and then you can buy ICE car in 2030 and have it for 10 more years since the ban only extends to new car sales.

And then let's hope that 20 years is enough time to put chargers everywhere. Somehow we manage to put several connectors to the grid in every house and apartment, connect street lamps and parking meters which suggests that it's a solved problem. We just need to do it and 20 years seems like enough time.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#104

Post by CalRobert »

physicsguy wrote: post #31

Many, many houses do not have anything other than on-street parking here. Since 2012 I've lived in 5 houses, and three of them had no driveway. I'm currently buying a house which has no drive way, with no way of fitting one. Apparently 1/3 houses have only on street parking. Unless they also provide huge, huge grants to rapidly implement dense onstreet charging, and fast, this is a pipedream and will end up getting p…

Perhaps we should stop letting individuals appropriate public space for storage of their private property, and charge market rate for the land used by parking, thereby encouraging people who are not car dependent to buy houses such as yours instead of demanding a public handout for vehicle storage?

(The High Cost Of Free Parking explores this issue in depth)

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#105

Post by csunbird »

cyxxon wrote: post #49
8draco8 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For years people will prefer non-electric cars. From a perspective of someone with his own driveway this is a nobrainer to have electric car but many people in EU live in apartment blocks and there is simply no infrastructure there to charge all necessary cars. I will be able to say that "no one should have a reason to drive petrol car" when 0-100 charge time will be around 15 minutes.

I don't understand why you were downvoted. This is exactly it. I live in Germany, and bought a petrol gar this year. I'd love to have a battery EV. I simply cannot charge it anywhere, maybe at work (and since Corona started I have been to the office exactly once). There are like two public charging spots in the city of 320k people I live in (that I know of), and I'd say 70% or 80% of people here do not have a drivewa…

I also want to buy an EV, maybe a Tesla, but unfortunately, having long trips are nearly impossible, since the supercharger network is not adequate enough yet. I just can not afford having 2 hour breaks every 400 kilometers just to charge my car.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#106

Post by dschuler »

Ma8ee wrote: post #73
anovikov wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But on the other hand, this IS indeed a super drastic action and we can't expect any nation on Earth apart from possibly, a few city-states like Singapore, to do as much in the same time frame. Petrol cars will be mainstay of transportation for about 40-50 years and will dominate new car sales for at least 20-30 years depending on the country. Anything but classic petrol and diesel cars will still hold tiny market sh…

You are way off. It took about 15 years to go from cities dominated by horse carriages to them being dominated by cars. It took longer in agriculture and rural areas. But the shift to electrical vehicles is trivial in comparison. Technically and economically we could easily prohibit new fossil fuelled cars by 2025. Sun and wind power is already much cheaper to install than coal powered plants, and once sun and wind p…

Cities went from horse-drawn carriages to automobiles because the incentives made it attractive to do it. The same can be done for for electric vehicles, it’s just a matter of putting the horse in front of the cart.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#107

Post by crispyporkbites »

Normal_gaussian wrote: post #80
brtkdotse wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You cannot have sudden cliff-edges in policies Brexit has entered the chat

This is a perfect example. Talked about by the forces that enacted it as early as 2010, the Brexit referendum happens in 2016, and leaving the EU has been gradually happening since then.

No, there’s 6 weeks to go and there’s still no trade agreement in place, nothing material has happened in the last 4 years. Any business that imports/exports has no clue what will happen on 1st Jan.

But yea I can get a blue passport now. What a great thing to waste years on.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#108

Post by mavhc »

brtkdotse wrote: post #58
djmobley wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’ve completely missed the point of what is a very reasonable and forward-thinking signalling exercise. You cannot have sudden cliff-edges in policies (like banning the sale of new ICE vehicles) that would put thousands, if not millions of people out of jobs. You need to send signals like this to the market well in advance so they can invest and plan ahead.

> You cannot have sudden cliff-edges in policies Brexit has entered the chat

Brexit is a direct result of global warming. Wars caused by drought, cause migration, cause racism.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#109

Post by speedgoose »

xendo wrote: post #26
dariosalvi78 wrote: post #6

this should have been done 10 years ago, but anyway, it's a good move. Waiting to see the EU doing the same.

i don't follow the space closely, but from my brief research it seems that 10 years ago there were almost no alternatives to petrol cars. On what premise do you think it would've been reasonable to ban petrol cars in that situation?

I think his point is that we should have got electric cars a long time ago.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#110

Post by malux85 »

djmobley wrote: post #43
LatteLazy wrote: post #30

This perfectly epitomises the uk (and the rest of the worlds) attitude to global warming: * it's a non binding commitment to do something but not for at least a decade * it's not enough even if it does happen * it will be too late by then (it probably already is for anything but drastic action) * it's totally at the whim of future governments who will be no more willing to spend the money/time/popularity than the cur…

I think you’ve completely missed the point of what is a very reasonable and forward-thinking signalling exercise. You cannot have sudden cliff-edges in policies (like banning the sale of new ICE vehicles) that would put thousands, if not millions of people out of jobs. You need to send signals like this to the market well in advance so they can invest and plan ahead.

Here’s the thing about a CO2 molecule :

I stood there for ages shouting at it,

Then I tried to reason with it,

Then I explained to it about in intricacies of human politics (you cannot have sudden cliff-edges in policies!)

Then I told it I had to send signals to the market

And the darn thing just sat there and continued to cause problems.

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