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The biology of dads

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Re: The biology of dads

#241

Post by lambda_obrien »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #169
lambda_obrien wrote: post #129

I agree with most of the comments here as a semi-new father, so I won't rehash then, but I really wish more people could experience the emotions and struggles of parenthood sooner, I think it makes a person realize what's important in life and causes one to mature quickly. I think people would be nicer to one another if they could be a parent for a year, at least.

> I think people would be nicer to one another if they could be a parent for a year, at least. Eh. I've seen other parents be just as shitty as anyone else. I don't think parenthood is an empathy-panacea.

I just figured the shitty people are already shitty now, but a lot of people become better after they have kids, so it might be a net gain if more people had kids earlier, since they might become better people earlier. You are right there are shitty parents, but I think parenthood generally makes for a more mature person, on the statistical whole.

Either way, it would be nice if people had to think about the care and feeding of others more often, so they might be less selfish after having seen how important a job it is to take care of another human with care and respect. Maybe even if people could take care of the elderly, it's a similar struggle to take care of a very old and enfeebled person.

Re: The biology of dads

#242

Post by [deleted] »

borroka wrote: post #214
pavel_lishin wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think people would be nicer to one another if they could be a parent for a year, at least. Eh. I've seen other parents be just as shitty as anyone else. I don't think parenthood is an empathy-panacea.

Exactly. How do we forget every time there are these conversations that most abuses happen in families? How do we forget about the victims of parental harassment, shaming, disinterest and violence? I don't know whether being a parent makes someone better or worse; but there are many parents who should have done something different that lazy Sunday afternoon.

[deleted]

Re: The biology of dads

#243

Post by therockspush »

lqet wrote: post #151
ksdale wrote: post #58

"They seemed like ideal infant-caregivers: calm, gentle, patient and sensitive. They didn’t seem like men you would go to battle with. In fact, they were the very antithesis of the warriors and athletes – think Maximus, Achilles or Michael Jordan – often associated with a masculine ideal." I became a father quite a bit before most of my friends, and so was the butt of some jokes about masculinity for the way I parent…

> "go to battle" I remember that in the first days after my kid was born, the thought that I would defend that child to the bitter end against any attacker suddenly seemed completely natural, even trivial. It was quite strange and included a sudden extreme awareness of (and aggressive feelings against) animals which came to close. This included dogs. The feelings were overwhelmingly archaic. I talked to my wife about…

Its a sudden visceral awareness that you were a host for the DNA thats been passed down from millions of people that came before.

The previous, relatively selfish person you used to be, almost immediately upon first seeing them, now only exists to protect this vulnerable life that's completely dependent on you.

Re: The biology of dads

#244

Post by _pastel »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #108

One aspect of fatherhood that surprised me is what I call the 'rescue response'. I was not able to find any formal information about this behavior, but I have to think there is something out there. I have experienced this exactly twice in my life on separate occasions: My child entered a physically and immediately dangerous situation. As soon as I saw their peril, my mind went into a kind of flow state. I didn't take…

If you'd like an endless stream of entertaining video examples of this response in action, I'd highly recommend r/DadReflexes.

Re: The biology of dads

#245

Post by yellowstuff »

kaitai wrote: post #163
yellowstuff wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see this as paradoxical. For babies past a couple months old a lot of cries are actually manipulative, and a more empathetic person can better distinguish them. I think my wife and I started sleeping training our son at around 12 weeks old, and quickly learned to tell the difference between a "complaining" cry that meant he was unhappy but he could probably soothe himself, and a "real" cry that meant he was r…

I really dislike projecting the adult trait of "manipulative" onto a baby. Adults manipulate by being underhanded when they have the option of being straightforward. The baby is being straightforward. What do you want the kid to do to communicate? "I am unhappy and while I could probably soothe myself I would like a parent's attention" -- hard to say all those words when you don't have language. What else can the kid…

I think you're right, "manipulative" has negative connotations that aren't appropriate in this context. When a baby is overcome with distress and cries instinctively I think it's important to always soothe them, when they cry as a mix of displeasure and communication then depending on the baby it may not be necessary to rush to them every time.

Re: The biology of dads

#246

Post by yellowstuff »

christophilus wrote: post #68
yellowstuff wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see this as paradoxical. For babies past a couple months old a lot of cries are actually manipulative, and a more empathetic person can better distinguish them. I think my wife and I started sleeping training our son at around 12 weeks old, and quickly learned to tell the difference between a "complaining" cry that meant he was unhappy but he could probably soothe himself, and a "real" cry that meant he was r…

Did you have a hard time convincing your wife to do sleep training on your kid? My wife thinks it’s abusive. I think it’s abusive to everyone else in the house not to do it!

Every baby is different and every parent is different. Sleep training worked well for my family but that doesn't mean it's the right choice for yours.

Re: The biology of dads

#247

Post by Agentlien »

kortilla wrote: post #180
cortesoft wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can totally relate to this. I have always been a completely non-violent person, but I remember the feeling of “I would kill to defend this tiny creature” when I became a dad. It was pretty powerful.

This is also when you realize the insidious power of the “think of the children” argument. When someone manipulates you to think of your own children, they trigger that base instinct that’s hard to fight.

This sentiment used to annoy me as it seemed like a non-sequitur.

Now that I'm a father I'm much more wary of it because I know just what it means.

Re: The biology of dads

#248

Post by mqrs »

gabereiser wrote: post #86
ksdale wrote: post #58

"They seemed like ideal infant-caregivers: calm, gentle, patient and sensitive. They didn’t seem like men you would go to battle with. In fact, they were the very antithesis of the warriors and athletes – think Maximus, Achilles or Michael Jordan – often associated with a masculine ideal." I became a father quite a bit before most of my friends, and so was the butt of some jokes about masculinity for the way I parent…

I echo this. I’m an empty nester now but when I was raising kids (really early on) most of my friends were going to bars and didn’t understand the responsibility. Now they are all having kids and looking to me for answers... like there’s a manual for kids. I felt the most pride in my life watching my step-daughter get her diploma. I, a masculine man who was taught to bottle it all up and stuff upper lip, cried like a…

> Those who have kids know. Those who don’t just will never understand.

Oh come on, I was agreeing with your comment until this totally unnecessary condescension.

Part of being a mature person (which you imply to claim you are) is the knowledge that whatever you know isn’t necessarily special to your experience, and that other people may arrive at it through a different set of experiences. In this case, being proud of someone whom you love and whose well-being you actively contributed to isn’t an exclusive domain of parents or step-parents, but also of teachers and caretakers in orphanages who are capable of fulfilling the role. “Having a kid” isn’t a requirement here.

Re: The biology of dads

#249

Post by mekane8 »

nine_k wrote: post #211
ksdale wrote: post #58

"They seemed like ideal infant-caregivers: calm, gentle, patient and sensitive. They didn’t seem like men you would go to battle with. In fact, they were the very antithesis of the warriors and athletes – think Maximus, Achilles or Michael Jordan – often associated with a masculine ideal." I became a father quite a bit before most of my friends, and so was the butt of some jokes about masculinity for the way I parent…

Also, having become a dad, one changes the attitude to the "battle". Instead of being a brash, brave, showy warrior who just doesnt' care about the danger and only cares about valor, you become a diligent, careful, never-surrendering and deadly efficient warrior, because you care a bit less about valor, but badly need to win. You have some specific lives to protect.

I love the way you phrased this and I experienced exactly the transformation you described!
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