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We can do better than DuckDuckGo

drewdevault.com

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Re: We can do better than DuckDuckGo

#11

Post by metroholografix »

WA9ACE wrote: post #7
metroholografix wrote: post #6

DuckDuckGo is a mirage and should not be used by privacy-conscious folks. Take a look at its terms of service, information collected section: "We also save searches, but again, not in a personally identifiable way, as we do not store IP addresses or unique User agent strings. We use aggregate, non-personal search data to improve things like misspellings." So they save your web searches and claim that they do so in an…

Do you have a search engine that you prefer to use that claims not to store said information that I might try?

The only solution I see is fully distributed/decentralized search. Run your own crawler or be part of a network that distributes this out to each participating node.

Every centralized search engine has immensely hard-to-resist and powerful incentives to play "The Eye of Sauron" with your data. Additionally, they offer single points of compromise to other, far more powerful actors. Whatever guarantees DuckDuckGo gives you -and right now they don't give any- don't mean much, if they've been thoroughly (willingly or unwillingly) compromised.

Which doesn't mean one should always steer well clear just that one should at least be aware of the tradeoffs one makes when using a centralized search engine. And with DuckDuckGo's misleading marketing, I feel that this point is lost on significant chunks of its userbase.

Re: We can do better than DuckDuckGo

#12

Post by mixologic »

How would anybody ever know what the server is running and/or doing with the data you send it, regardless of if it is running open or closed source code?

A service, running on somebody else's machine, is essntially closed.

I think the only way to have an 'open' service is to have it managed like a co-op, where the users all have access to deployment logs or other such transparency.

Even then, it requires implicit trust in whomever has the authorization to access the servers.

Re: We can do better than DuckDuckGo

#13

Post by ufo »

One thing I always wished for is if there were a way to use duckduckgo bang searches in my browser without sending them through DDG. But apparently it's harder to implement than it sounds.

Re: We can do better than DuckDuckGo

#14

Post by fbelzile »

metroholografix wrote: post #6

DuckDuckGo is a mirage and should not be used by privacy-conscious folks. Take a look at its terms of service, information collected section: "We also save searches, but again, not in a personally identifiable way, as we do not store IP addresses or unique User agent strings. We use aggregate, non-personal search data to improve things like misspellings." So they save your web searches and claim that they do so in an…

> DuckDuckGo is a mirage ... The privacy problems with this claim are many ... good luck verifying ...

Okay, can you list just a few?

If you're going to make counter-claims like this, you're going to have to provide evidence.

Statements like these are not conducive in gaining popular support for increased privacy.

Re: We can do better than DuckDuckGo

#15

Post by burnthrow »

metroholografix wrote: post #11
WA9ACE wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a search engine that you prefer to use that claims not to store said information that I might try?

The only solution I see is fully distributed/decentralized search. Run your own crawler or be part of a network that distributes this out to each participating node. Every centralized search engine has immensely hard-to-resist and powerful incentives to play "The Eye of Sauron" with your data. Additionally, they offer single points of compromise to other, far more powerful actors. Whatever guarantees DuckDuckGo gives…

"Run your own crawler" is not a solution.

Cool my comments are immediately downvoted like that Italian guy's.

Re: We can do better than DuckDuckGo

#17

Post by [deleted] »

mixologic wrote: post #12

How would anybody ever know what the server is running and/or doing with the data you send it, regardless of if it is running open or closed source code? A service, running on somebody else's machine, is essntially closed. I think the only way to have an 'open' service is to have it managed like a co-op, where the users all have access to deployment logs or other such transparency. Even then, it requires implicit tru…

[deleted]

Re: We can do better than DuckDuckGo

#19

Post by metroholografix »

fbelzile wrote: post #14
metroholografix wrote: post #6

DuckDuckGo is a mirage and should not be used by privacy-conscious folks. Take a look at its terms of service, information collected section: "We also save searches, but again, not in a personally identifiable way, as we do not store IP addresses or unique User agent strings. We use aggregate, non-personal search data to improve things like misspellings." So they save your web searches and claim that they do so in an…

> DuckDuckGo is a mirage ... The privacy problems with this claim are many ... good luck verifying ... Okay, can you list just a few? If you're going to make counter-claims like this, you're going to have to provide evidence. Statements like these are not conducive in gaining popular support for increased privacy.

How do you save a search in a non-personally identifiable way? Do you have a human verify the data belonging to each and every search ? Not saving IPs and/or browser data doesn't solve the problem since the search terms themselves can be personally identifiable.

How do you verify that DuckDuckGo does -the minimal and ineffective- things they claim to do? They offer no proof.

How do you verify that DuckDuckGo does not secretly cooperate with more powerful coercive actors?

How do you verify that DuckDuckGo, offering a single point of compromise, has not been thoroughly compromised by more powerful actors?

Re: We can do better than DuckDuckGo

#20

Post by dangus »

pmoriarty wrote: post #9

My main problem with DDG is that there's no way to be sure they actually respect their users' privacy as they claim to. Ideally, services like theirs would be continuously audited by respectable, trusted organizations like the EFF.. multiple such organizations even. Then I'd have at least some reason to believe their claims of not collecting data about me. As it stands, I only have their word for it.. which in this d…

I don’t even care about the privacy. (Well, I do, but in this context I have no reasonable way to ensure it)

What I do care about is trust-building and monopolistic practices.

That, to me, is a great reason to use DDG instead of Google or even Bing.

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