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The biology of dads

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Re: The biology of dads

#101

Post by crpatino »

bagacrap wrote: post #61
cosmic_shame wrote: post #15

My personal experience as a dad of a 16 month old: new, intense anxiety about what the future will look like for my child.

The way I look at it is that I need my kids to be super smart, hard working, and principled to help extricate humanity from the hole it's currently digging itself into. I can think of many ways the future could suck more than the present, but in none of these scenarios will it be better off without my children, assuming I raise them well.

I personally believe that digging itself into a hole (and eventually climbing back up) is the status quo for Humanity. It has been done multiple times before, and doubtlessly it will continue to be the case once our current trials are nothing but fading footnotes in some ancient history book.

With that in mind, I don't think it is healthy for a child to grow up believing Humanity is fixable or, even worse, that it is their destiny and their duty to fix it.

Re: The biology of dads

#102

Post by watwut »

zarkov99 wrote: post #92
antisthenes wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a pretty big disconnect between our cultural ideal, and reality. As someone who isn't a native-born American, is that really your cultural ideal? Warriors and athletes? Because to an outsider that just seems...laughable at best, and for more reasons than just rampant obesity.

Why? What is your culture's cultural ideal?

For whatever is worth, I don't find warrior ideal either. I associate that with someone who is source of danger and threat.

Warriors around means that you have to go home shortest route and watch whether the room is dangerous.

Athletes have good bodies, but that is about it.

Re: The biology of dads

#103

Post by smegcicle »

hi41 wrote: post #79

When we has our first child, it came as a total shock as to the amount of work that was needed. I was completely unprepared for it. Added to my wife’s work schedule and mine, I was stuck between changing diapers and kitchen. I absolutely HATED fatherhood. Did anyone have the same experience and how did you overcome the frustration to become a good father.

> Added to my wife’s work schedule

There's your problem.

The idea that women have a moral right to enter the workforce being used as an argument against their necessity in the full time job of raising their own children is nonsensical.

Re: The biology of dads

#104

Post by cgriswald »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #97
jedimastert wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The newborn phase was really hard for me So many people led me to believe that I would fall in love with my kid the instant I first laid eyes on her, and it simply wasn't the case. I love her so much now, but it definitely wasn't the immediate flip of a switch that some may believe

Same with me. I think a few people overstate the feeling of their new bond to the point that it's supposedly become normal.

I also wonder if people are talking about different things.

It's difficult for me to overstate the emotional impact at the moment of the birth of my kid. It was intense and powerful. I've never felt anything like it, before or since. There was definitely something there.

But the bond didn't come for me until I could actually interact with this other human being. Offering a bottle and hearing a coo in response didn't really do it. Playing peekaboo was sort of the beginning for me, I guess.

I could definitely see someone conflating or confusing the two experiences.

Re: The biology of dads

#105

Post by watwut »

yellowstuff wrote: post #63
bluedays wrote: post #20

>Paradoxically, we found that fathers who activate the anterior cingulate the most when listening to infant crying report the most negative emotional responses to those cries, in particular being more likely to label the cry as spoiled or manipulative. How can greater engagement of a brain region associated with empathy be linked with such negative subjective reactions to the cry? We suspect it relates to a phenomeno…

I don't see this as paradoxical. For babies past a couple months old a lot of cries are actually manipulative, and a more empathetic person can better distinguish them. I think my wife and I started sleeping training our son at around 12 weeks old, and quickly learned to tell the difference between a "complaining" cry that meant he was unhappy but he could probably soothe himself, and a "real" cry that meant he was r…

A couple months old baby is not capable to be manipulative. That requires reasoning, predicting and emphating abilities they don't have.

Re: The biology of dads

#106

Post by [deleted] »

zarkov99 wrote: post #92
antisthenes wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a pretty big disconnect between our cultural ideal, and reality. As someone who isn't a native-born American, is that really your cultural ideal? Warriors and athletes? Because to an outsider that just seems...laughable at best, and for more reasons than just rampant obesity.

Why? What is your culture's cultural ideal?

[deleted]

Re: The biology of dads

#107

Post by watwut »

christophilus wrote: post #68
yellowstuff wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see this as paradoxical. For babies past a couple months old a lot of cries are actually manipulative, and a more empathetic person can better distinguish them. I think my wife and I started sleeping training our son at around 12 weeks old, and quickly learned to tell the difference between a "complaining" cry that meant he was unhappy but he could probably soothe himself, and a "real" cry that meant he was r…

Did you have a hard time convincing your wife to do sleep training on your kid? My wife thinks it’s abusive. I think it’s abusive to everyone else in the house not to do it!

Whether it is abusive 100% depends on how your kids reacts. Some will stop crying and with cry hard anyway. Others will cry for over 2 hours super strong (and then friend who had such kid decided this wont be done again).

Babies are not copies, they react in various ways.

Re: The biology of dads

#108

Post by 11thEarlOfMar »

One aspect of fatherhood that surprised me is what I call the 'rescue response'. I was not able to find any formal information about this behavior, but I have to think there is something out there.

I have experienced this exactly twice in my life on separate occasions: My child entered a physically and immediately dangerous situation. As soon as I saw their peril, my mind went into a kind of flow state. I didn't take time to weigh options, or consider any type of danger to myself, I simply reacted and before I could consider what was happening, I'd removed my kids from the peril. Later, in one case, I noticed I had bruises from my action. In the other, I received a call from the school principal.

Likewise, my father saved my brother and I from drowning, and I believe he had the same 'rescue response'. As soon as he saw what was happening, he dived in from the pier and swam the 30 feet to retrieve us, only to realize that once he had us, he had no idea what to do next. Meanwhile, my aunt had calmly climbed into a nearby canoe and rowed out to assist.

I don't claim this is strictly a father's behavior, or strictly a male behavior, but personally, I haven't had this identical reaction in the few times I've seen other peoples' kids in similar urgent peril. I have taken other action, such as alerting bystanders, but not immediately put myself into danger. I contemplated options first.

Re: The biology of dads

#109

Post by cgriswald »

treeman79 wrote: post #70
mattgreenrocks wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same experience. I wrote it off as a big change and sleep deprivation, but there were some days that the cries of my son seemed very difficult to deal with. I hadn't had much experience with newborns/babies prior. It could also be generalized anxiety. Mine would take uniquely weird forms, including awakening from a dead sleep convinced my son was buried/lost somewhere in the house. I'm convinced that the biological i…

Have a sleepwalker. Related to needing to pee. Absolutely will end up anywhere in the house, in any bucket or shelf. Or out the door. Caught her peeing in Landry buckets, on her sisters head, etc. We have barriers to keep her on top floor. They have to be sturdy. Moment we can get kid to pee she is instantly fully awake, confused as to how she got there and goes back to bed for the night. We’ve leaned to sleep lightl…

Man, that's rough.

Our kid had night terrors for about a year. Just about the time the random worrying stopped happening we started getting woken up to blood-curdling screams we couldn't really do anything about.

Re: The biology of dads

#110

Post by mattgreenrocks »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #108

One aspect of fatherhood that surprised me is what I call the 'rescue response'. I was not able to find any formal information about this behavior, but I have to think there is something out there. I have experienced this exactly twice in my life on separate occasions: My child entered a physically and immediately dangerous situation. As soon as I saw their peril, my mind went into a kind of flow state. I didn't take…

I've had this happen too, especially in potentially dangerous situations. It's as if time slows down and you have no room to fear, just act.

Then there's the hangover afterward :)

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