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South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

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Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#361

Post by dang »

sam0x17 wrote: post #47
silverpepsi wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there still people who believe it is just "a few eccentrics"? As someone who has a lot of them in my direct family, extended family, and even Facebook friends, my perception is that partisanship has reached a point where there is literal mass delusion out there far left and far right. And in the case of covid19, it feels like at least 10% don't fully believe in it (the level of doubt varying by individual and sit…

There is no "mass-delusion" on the far left. We are literally at a point where the current daily cases mean that a month from now we will be having around 3-4k deaths per day based on how many people are already infected NOW. That's a 9/11 terrorist attack per day in deaths. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that is delusional.

Please don't escalate rhetoric like this on HN, or do ideological battle here generally. It's against the site guidelines, makes discussion more boring (even as it creates a feeling of activation) and leads to predictable places, regardless of how right you are or feel.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#362

Post by ghthor »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #226

I have three small children who have not been sick ONCE since the lockdowns started. They barely have seen another child, let alone played with them in close proximity. Do you think this is good news? No, it actually puts them at much higher risk of childhood leukemia and that scares me much more than them getting covid 19[1]. Articles like this strike me as propaganda. You can believe that covid 19 is real and covid…

Yeah this all seems like propaganda

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#363

Post by ryandrake »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #343
coding123 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually the state governments that's at fault here. Not the specifically the people. Let me tell you I was in back-country Oregon recently, some of the MOST republican places within Oregon, not going to name drop the county. Anyway, the Oregon state government is very much democratic (cause you know Portland). But because of that, even the republican counties are under a mask order. And the extremely red counti…

The states aren't run by stupid people. They're not gonna send in some state cops start shooting people over masks or to escalate in that direction. They don't have the manpower to enforce mask mandates without the consent of the governed. Their options for projecting power into areas where people have relatively homogeneously chosen to not comply are limited.

There are plenty of examples of unpopular rules successfully enforced, from school integration to the War On Drugs. The lack of mask/distancing enforcement is purely government cowardice and indifference. They could do it if they wanted to.

Publicly fire a few county bumpkin Sheriffs who refuse to enforce the mandates and you'd see an attitude change.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#364

Post by skim_milk »

clairity wrote: post #305
whalesalad wrote: post #12

My wife and I just moved from Orange County, CA to Detroit, MI this last August. We decided to drive the northern route. Heading through Vegas, Utah, Yellowstone and Montana. Then onward through the plains of North Dakota and Minnesota. Turning north we entered Wisconsin and finally the UP (Upper Peninsula) of Michigan. After a few days exploring we turned south to Detroit. In Vegas the concern for masks started to w…

rather than moralizing angrily ('fucks'), why not try to hone in on what you're worried about exactly? were you really in danger? if you'd have focused more on the lack of distancing indoors, that might have been a legitimate concern. but masks are for show in most places, at most times, and your focus on them indicates a retreat to symbolism rather than effect. the primary appeal of masks is for quelling fear and an…

I see this perspective a lot on social media and I think it just adds to the corona response culture shock. No one ever seems to understand each other better when this is brought up.

People seem to always assume/project the other party is controlled by high levels of anxiety around using masks when in reality I see most people know that distancing/masks are a risk mitigation technique (NOT a one-stop-fix, but a risk mitigation) used to bring virus spread rate down and flatten the curve. Instead of being an emotionally charged subject, I think most people see distancing/masks as a tool to reduce the spread of the virus so that we can go out more often as opposed to taking no mitigations and contributing to exponential rates of virus spread.

With this perspective, I think feeling violated by people avoiding masks is a healthy, normal response. It's not about feeling anxious for going outside, but that we have been violated by people spreading the virus to others causing us to have to extend the lockdown and keep our economy dead in order to not over-burden the hospitals.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#365

Post by jjeaff »

NoSorryCannot wrote: post #291
Impashin wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-10/ Please cite me where the power to enact a requirement to wear masks is explicitly granted to the federal government. I'll wait.

You are being unpleasant. But even short an ability of the federal government to unilaterally require masks, it can exert a lot of soft power on the states by having a unified and full-throated position. The CDC, OSHA, federal funding incentives, and just having persuasive leadership that doesn't politicize compassionate mask wearing.

Heck, having a president who says masks are important and is seen wearing one in public most of the time and not saying things like "you can wear a mask if you want to, me personally, I'm not going to" would go a long, long way.

However, I'm afraid that the cat is already out of the bag and many weak minds have been poisoned that wearing a mask somehow infringes rights or doesn't do anything.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#366

Post by BrianOnHN »

whoomp12342 wrote: post #139

tis but a flesh wound

Lol, perfect!

Though, sadly, some people here that are going to see that, combined with seeing "news" in the domain, and will start preaching it as fact to their children: "Dont worry, news says it's just like a flesh wound."

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#367

Post by kn0where »

clairity wrote: post #305
whalesalad wrote: post #12

My wife and I just moved from Orange County, CA to Detroit, MI this last August. We decided to drive the northern route. Heading through Vegas, Utah, Yellowstone and Montana. Then onward through the plains of North Dakota and Minnesota. Turning north we entered Wisconsin and finally the UP (Upper Peninsula) of Michigan. After a few days exploring we turned south to Detroit. In Vegas the concern for masks started to w…

rather than moralizing angrily ('fucks'), why not try to hone in on what you're worried about exactly? were you really in danger? if you'd have focused more on the lack of distancing indoors, that might have been a legitimate concern. but masks are for show in most places, at most times, and your focus on them indicates a retreat to symbolism rather than effect. the primary appeal of masks is for quelling fear and an…

The whole “just be 6 feet away and it can’t get to you” is not reality, despite what the CDC or WHO says. Sure, keeping 6 feet apart helps reduce exposure compared to being 2 feet apart, but droplets containing the virus don’t all just magically hit the ground within that radius. Ventilation of fresh air is critical because of the buildup of aerosols that occurs indoors: https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-a... I’ll be blunt. Restaurants are not a good idea right now; when people are eating and talking they are filling the air with spit, and you can’t wear a mask while eating. And even with masks, prolonged exposure indoors without any fresh air will expose many if one person in the room is contagious.

Masks are one additional piece—and truly one of the easiest measures—to reduce overall exposure. It’s been well established that even basic masks significantly reduce the amount of aerosols emitted as we talk, so when I’m in a grocery store surrounded by others, I do feel unsafe if people aren’t wearing masks, because it means far more of their airborne spit emitted when they breathe, talk, cough, or sneeze is reaching my eyes and lungs than if they would just wear a simple, cheap surgical mask. Medical personnel don’t wear masks for the hell of it; they wear them because it substantially reduces the amount of transmission, and does provide some small amount of protection to the wearer versus wearing nothing.

I don’t even blame people for coming to the conclusion that masks don’t need to be worn. The science has gotten much clearer over the past year and yet our governmental leaders have not only failed to accurately convey what we’ve learned, but have actually lost the trust they may have had. It’s no wonder people are confused about what works to reduce risk and what doesn’t, and how significant the risks are, when our leaders fist told us masks only protect doctors, then told us we could stop the spread with short, poorly enforced lockdowns that maximized economic harm without sufficiently quarantining the population, and now are telling everyone to wear a mask without properly acknowledging that aerosols are a major mechanism for superspreader events.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#368

Post by dang »

skyzyx wrote: post #26

Yes, the pandemic fatigue is real. Yes, it would be wonderful to hang out with my friends in person, or to drive 100 miles crossing the border to go visit my children. But the reason this is lasting so long, and things are shutting back down is because people are ignoring the truth. You can talk about the economy all day long, but the fact of the matter is that if we all would’ve taken this seriously and shut everyth…

Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar. That's the last thing we need here. Well, tied for last anyway.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#369

Post by gruez »

chillwaves wrote: post #318
gruez wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The free market is right there, refusing to address shortages and price gouging you for essential supplies It's hardly a free market when there's anti price gouging laws.

So if we let them take more advantage of the situation then it will improve?

Yes. If factories can hike prices, then they can recoup their investments faster. Right now there's little incentive for them to invest into expanding capacity, because the demand eventually dies down, and they never see a return on the sums they invested.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22789340

>The common theme is that during an outbreak like this, everybody wants to be his customer. But as soon as an outbreak subsides, his customers dump him and run back to China. The reason? His masks may cost a dime each, but a made-in-China mask might go for two cents.

>“Last time he geared up and went three shifts a day working his tail off,” the mayor recalled. “As soon as the issue died, he didn’t have any sales. He had to pay unemployment for all these people, and he had to gear down.”

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#370

Post by munificent »

cltby wrote: post #292
munificent wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, here I am in the "anarchist jurisdiction" of Seattle and 90%+ of the people I see are wearing masks, socially distancing, and taking the scientific authorities seriously.

I'm in Seattle too. The local health guidelines suggest that it's safe to: 1. Put on a mask before going outside 2. Stroll to your local favorite restaurant 3. Get a table indoors 4. Remove the mask 5. Socialize Some rural citizens are skipping steps 1 and 4, but Science only confers protection from covid when all the steps are followed. This sort of pandemic theater is why cases are at an all-time high here. The 90%…

> 3. Get a table indoors

Keep in mind that restaurants are at significantly reduced capacity and those tables are now more widely spread apart.

These guidelines mean you are much less likely to share airspace with strangers. Yes, it's not as safe as not going to a restaurant at all, but they are trying to balance mitigating risk while allowing some economic activity. It's a hard problem.

The last time I drove through central Washington, I saw crowds of people clustered together at the front of restaurants with no masks on. I don't see that here. People generally stay spread out and wear masks when around strangers.

> This sort of pandemic theater is why cases are at an all-time high here

This kind of black-and-white "if you aren't being 100% safe you're just doing pandemic theater" rhetoric helps absolutely nothing.

> why cases are at an all-time high here.

Still better here than in much of the US, despite being the first outbreak, being on lockdown longer than most of the US (and thus with the most pandemic fatigue).

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