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Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

theguardian.com

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Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#391

Post by jahaja »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #390
jahaja wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh, another non-reply. If this is so blatant as you claim you should be able to tell me who the authority on this massive shift to social democracy in the US is, because this is so market fundamentalistic that I think that you're just making shit up.

I just showed you statistics showing a massive increase in the share of GDP being redistributed by government for social welfare outlays, and your response was to completely dismiss the relevancy of that fact and persist in your extremist commitment to your narrative.

Yes, and I explained why I dismissed it. It has no relation to social democracy. Why are you digging deeper instead of just posting something to back up your point?

I'm from a classically social democratic country and I see absolutely no trace at all of that in that period nor today in the US. So I'm dumbfounded about how you can make such a claim. But since you're clearly unwilling to back it up beyond some vague associations to social spending I'll assume that you're a troll now.

Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#392

Post by CryptoPunk »

jahaja wrote: post #391
CryptoPunk wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just showed you statistics showing a massive increase in the share of GDP being redistributed by government for social welfare outlays, and your response was to completely dismiss the relevancy of that fact and persist in your extremist commitment to your narrative.

Yes, and I explained why I dismissed it. It has no relation to social democracy. Why are you digging deeper instead of just posting something to back up your point? I'm from a classically social democratic country and I see absolutely no trace at all of that in that period nor today in the US. So I'm dumbfounded about how you can make such a claim. But since you're clearly unwilling to back it up beyond some vague as…

Yes, you dismissed a highly relevant statistic showing the broad-based structural change in the economy in favor of government redistribution of income for social welfare outlays. There's no point even having a discussion with someone behaving like are right now.

Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#393

Post by fennecfoxen »

gentaro wrote: post #377
fennecfoxen wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is argument is based off of your misunderstanding of economics Your superior "understanding" of economics is at odds with academic consensus and with reality. > Consumers need capital to drive demand Replacing five McDonalds cashiers with two cashiers, an app, and a touchscreen ordering kiosk doesn't "drive demand".

> Your superior "understanding" of economics is at odds with academic consensus and with reality. And yet, you have no counterargument.

the marginal cost of supplying argument has exceeded the marginal benefit (zero)

Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#394

Post by Bryan22 »

rectang wrote: post #47
treeman79 wrote: post #18

Got injured awhile back. Disability decided to play hardball. Gig jobs are all that kept family off the street while I recovered. Starting and stopping anytime as my body could tolerate. Or renting out rooms on Airbnb. Sometimes it took me 4 hours to change sheets and tidy up, but it made the difference. Not saying their good companies. But gigs was crazy valuable to me.

I drove for Lyft for a while while taking a break from software. Then I got t-boned by a red-light runner. Fortunately no one was injured. I was on my way to pick up a passenger, but it was only me in the vehicle. When I went to make my insurance claim to fix several thousand dollars worth of damage to my car, I discovered that despite having done a lot of research when trying to buy the right insurance with a ridesh…

This is not how insurance works. The at-fault driver's insurance pays for damages. You're either leaving something out of this story or it is fabricated from whole cloth.

Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#395

Post by namesbc »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #290
namesbc wrote: post #235

When software companies switch to on-demand flex labor at below minimum wage everyone on this site who supports Prop 22 will be singing a different tune.

Prop 22 sets the base pay at 120% minimum wage

They only count hours that a customers is in the car when calculating that, so it comes out to about $5/hr minimum wage which is below federal minimum wage.

Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#396

Post by namesbc »

esoterica wrote: post #249
namesbc wrote: post #235

When software companies switch to on-demand flex labor at below minimum wage everyone on this site who supports Prop 22 will be singing a different tune.

It's already 100% legal to pay software engineers minimum wage, why don't the FAANGs of the world do it? Is it possible that the market forces set the floor on engineer wages, not the legal system?

Engineers have workers rights because labor activists fought for them and won.

Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#397

Post by Rebelgecko »

namesbc wrote: post #395
Rebelgecko wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prop 22 sets the base pay at 120% minimum wage

They only count hours that a customers is in the car when calculating that, so it comes out to about $5/hr minimum wage which is below federal minimum wage.

That's not true at all. From the text of prop 22, the minimum wage covers the entire period "from when an app-based driver accepts a rideshare request or delivery request to when the app-based driver completes that rideshare request or delivery request."

So it's true that if you're sitting outside an airport at 3am when no one is there you won't be getting paid. But as soon as a plane lands and you accept a passenger, you'll get paid for the time you spend driving to pick them up AND the time after you pick them up.

Similarly, if you accept a food delivery in the app but the food isn't ready when you get to the restaurant, you'll get 120% minimum wage while waiting for the cook to finish

Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#398

Post by namesbc »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #397
namesbc wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They only count hours that a customers is in the car when calculating that, so it comes out to about $5/hr minimum wage which is below federal minimum wage.

That's not true at all. From the text of prop 22, the minimum wage covers the entire period "from when an app-based driver accepts a rideshare request or delivery request to when the app-based driver completes that rideshare request or delivery request." So it's true that if you're sitting outside an airport at 3am when no one is there you won't be getting paid. But as soon as a plane lands and you accept a passenger…

The Uber/Lyft Ballot Initiative Guarantees only $5.64 an Hour

https://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-uber-lyft-ballot-initia...

Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#399

Post by [deleted] »

namesbc wrote: post #398
Rebelgecko wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true at all. From the text of prop 22, the minimum wage covers the entire period "from when an app-based driver accepts a rideshare request or delivery request to when the app-based driver completes that rideshare request or delivery request." So it's true that if you're sitting outside an airport at 3am when no one is there you won't be getting paid. But as soon as a plane lands and you accept a passenger…

The Uber/Lyft Ballot Initiative Guarantees only $5.64 an Hour https://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-uber-lyft-ballot-initia...

[deleted]

Re: Gig economy companies spent more than $200M to bankroll Proposition 22

#400

Post by Rebelgecko »

namesbc wrote: post #398
Rebelgecko wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true at all. From the text of prop 22, the minimum wage covers the entire period "from when an app-based driver accepts a rideshare request or delivery request to when the app-based driver completes that rideshare request or delivery request." So it's true that if you're sitting outside an airport at 3am when no one is there you won't be getting paid. But as soon as a plane lands and you accept a passenger…

The Uber/Lyft Ballot Initiative Guarantees only $5.64 an Hour https://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-uber-lyft-ballot-initia...

A few thoughts off the dome-

That link contradicts your claim that drivers are only compensated for the time spent with passengers

That link is attempting to calculate take-home pay after taxes, health insurance, etc. Minimum wage is pretax, so even regular employees aren't making minimum wage once they've paid for their income taxes, social security, Medicare, disability insurance and health insurance. Imo its nonsensical to compare gross against net pay

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